Results from Quebec election (1 Viewer)

[Newman]

Thought that some might be interested in the results of Quebec election...

"Liberal Party" lost is majority but are still the governement. Some says that John James Charest might loose is job as leader of the party because he is the one who called the election. They still get most of the English voters on their side, but lost a lot of french one. Since Quebec is 85% french, that's not very good to have them against the party.

"Parti Quebecois"(PQ; Separtists) almost lost it all and are now third party. Andre Boisclair will certainly be kicked out of the party by the older members. Know that Mr Boisclair is young, gay and has used cocaine in the past. Things that older member do not accept. He had a good vision, but affraid of loosing the votes of the older members he tried to go in between the youth's idea and elder's idea. Results: Both voted against him. Many separatists are now voting against the separatist party, as I did. The reason is that the older members only wants to separate from Canada but don't focus on anything else, saying that a separated Quebec will have no more problems in the future since everything bad comes from Canada. Younger separatists feels that before thinking about separation, we must get our province back on it's feet. Separation might be a wish, but we are realists and we know that there is more important things to do in the near future. We might wish to get out of Canada, but it is not like our lives depends on it. We feel that Canada doesn't listen to us (French canadian) enough, but they aren't that bad either. (Do you know many countries that accept separtists parties?)

Both left side parties "Quebec Solidaire" (Socialist) and "Green Party" (Ecologist) got nothing at all. Not even one seat, not even for their leaders. Looks like Quebec is no longer on the left side.

The only right side party "Action Democratique du Quebec" (ADQ) which had only 5 seats out of 125, are now the official opposition with 41 seats (Liberal got 48 and PQ got 36), thanks to Mario Dumont's charism (or populism as some says). It was called a tsunami, because no one could have ever think that this young party, with almost no experience, no money and no team, could have such a result. Nevertheless, it is good that they didn't get the first place. They'll have time to prove what they can do in the opposition and get some experience. Maybe next time...

Since Canada's leaders ("Conservative Party") are also a minority party and since Separatists have lost their power in Quebec, there will probably be a federal election soon.
I'll keep you informed.

If you need more details don't hesitate. I'd be pleased to help you out.

 

[boblarson]

Last night, I was in bed looking up at the stars in the sky and thought to myself, “Where the heck is the ceiling?”

I just had to comment on your signature tagline. That is hilarious!

 

[Jakboi]

I just had to comment on your signature tagline. That is hilarious!

I would have to def agree with you on that sig...too funny.

Both left side parties "Quebec Solidaire" (Socialist) and "Green Party" (Ecologist) got nothing at all. Not even one seat, not even for their leaders. Looks like Quebec is no longer on the left side.

That sounds like a good thing even though my knoweledge on Canadian Politics is limited, but I know here in the states partys that are little too far to the left or extreme are nuts.

 

[KKilfoil]

Newman

I'm just over the 'border' here in eastern Ontario.
It looks to me like the electorate has spoken, and said that they are sick of ALL of the old parties.

Liberals: the Federal liberals and the sponsership debacle have sunk them, plus its just the same old thing all over again.

PQ: the same speech over and over again, and no real plan to govern

conservatives: we need another 20 years to forget Mulroony

ADQ: Well, they're new, and that guy has a great haircut. Maybe we need a change.


I draw a loose parallel (very very loose) with the Reform party at the federal level. They emerged from the fringe because EVERYONE else was bad. The Reform Party growth was mainly a protest vote by right-wingers who were revulsed by Mulroony-era PCs.

 

[Newman]

You are right. The old parties debated that the ADQ was a populist party, changing is mind to follow the population way of thinking. The reality is that they are true, but that ain't a bad thing at all. Yes, ADQ was once separatists and is now federalist. Yes, it changes to please the population. I think they understood that we don't ask the governement so that they can do what is best for us, but to do what we want from us. They change they mind often... So what? We also do, in our every day life. If we want to go ahead with time, we got to leave behind some principles that we might have had in the past, but that does not represent the new generations.

If we think black one day and white the other, we want the governement to ask himself how it can help make things white. We don't want them to tell us that we asked for black so that's what we'll get. We don't want them to tell us that even if we think white, since black is better that's what they'll give us.
ADQ say that if the population now wants white, they will also change their mind and do what they can to provide white. Some might call it populism or opportunism, I call it democracy.

 

[statsman]

Way to go ADQ. Let's get some new blood and some ideas into Quebec politics.
The only problem with their doing so well is what can the Liberals stand AGAINST if there's no PQ and separation is on hiatus.

 

[Newman]

We'll keep on arguing about constitution, but with more depth. It's not about separatism or federalism anymore, but there is still a lot of things to talk about with federals and other provinces. The thing is that education, health, security, tourism, economy and many more subjects are going to be the focus of the new debates. We may come back to the separatism question in a couple of years, but that should not be the priority. We can't talk about getting away from Canada when we don't yet have what it takes to be a country.

It's like a teenager who is living with it's family...
Liberals say that we can live with mom and dad for ever.
PQ say that we should take a flat right away.
ADQ say that we must talk with mom and dad about the rules of the house 'cause we are no kids anymore. And, in the same time, get a job and save some money to be ready when the time comes to get in our own appartment.

Instead of leaving home angry against mom and dad, we must take the time to do it well. We must be prepared and make sure that, when we leave mom and dad, they will be happy to give us a hand in painting the walls of the new flat and moving the furnitures. I dream of a separation with which Canada and Quebec can still be best friends. Lets show the rest of the world that it can be done without war.

Let diplomacy win!

 

[statsman]

I think the rest of Canada has spoken on this issue.

We want Quebec in Canada. We need Quebec in Canada. We hope Quebec will see that its in their own best interest to stay in Canada.

But if you're out, you're all the way out. No subsidies, no currency input, no Customs union. The NEW Province of Quebec will include everything south of the St. Lawrence and the New Territories. The Republic of Quebec is made up of the rest.

 

[Newman]

I must say that I am with you on this(Don't tell the extremists though ), but the territory shall be all of the actual province until part of it wants to separate. I don't think Canada should tell us which part of the province should stay in Canada. Still, I beleive that if a part of it wants to get back in Canada, they should have the right to do so. If it is good for Quebec to separate for Canada, it shall be good for an area to separate from Quebec after all.

When I say that we could still be friends, I don't mean that Canada should stay behind Quebec for help. I mean that we could separate without using violence and war. Hate should not be part of this process. Canada is friendly with UK, USA, France, Japan, ... It could be the same with Quebec.

If you don't want us to use your currency or if you want us to have a visa or passport to get in Canada, it is your right to do so. But if you bring your tanks and CF18, then I hope that UN would put us on their "Declaration on the Granting of Independence" list. I just hope we don't get to see another Palestine or Irish like war.

But I have faith in both Quebec and Canada to get through it correctly.

 

[Newman]

By the way, you'll never see the whole south asking to get out of Quebec. Maybe the Ottawa area which rely a lot on Ottawa, western side of Montreal which has a lot of anglophones and allophones and Eastern townships (Vermont's and New Hampshire's borders) which has a lot of loyalists to the British crown that got away from USA when they separate from UK. But not the south shores of Trois-Rivieres and Quebec nor the Gaspesian peninsula.

For the new territories, I don't know if they would ask to get back to Canada, but we might let go a part of it (above 55th*) as we did with Labrador if that's what Canada wants.

 

[statsman]

The New Territories were given to Quebec in 1905 (at the same time Alberta and Saskatchewan were carved out of the then North-West Territories). Quebec at first turned them down but when they found out Ontario was getting a big chunk of land out ot the NWT, they changed their mind.
Quebec had NO claim on Labrador until Canada gave them the N.T. At that time Labrador was part of the independent Dominion of Newfoundland.

The largest employer in the Hull/Gatineu/Alymer area is the federal government. Wonder where they'll choose to go?

 

[KKilfoil]

TThe largest employer in the Hull/Gatineu/Alymer area is the federal government. Wonder where they'll choose to go?

IF Quebec were to separate, do you think that the ROC would choose to leave their capital at Ottawa. which was just an Upper/Lower Canada English/French compromise in the first place?

Do you think that the ROC would maintain an offically bilingual status for Canada?

I suspect a public backlash would occur, where 'English Canada' would over-react, and elect a polarized govermnent that would reject all things French. This might alienate some in New Brunswick, but, oh well...

 

[Newman]

IF Quebec were to separate, do you think that the ROC would choose to leave their capital at Ottawa. which was just an Upper/Lower Canada English/French compromise in the first place?

It would probably stay there, since it is not easy to move a capital to somewhere else. After all, why would you want to move it? And where? That would create disputes between cities.

Do you think that the ROC would maintain an offically bilingual status for Canada?

Canada should never have had a bilingual status in the first place. Canada is an English country, with a French province (Quebec) and a bilingual province(NB) inside of it. Why should BC have to produce biligual products when less than 1 percent of its population doesn't speak French? Trudeau introduce the biligual status just to make sure that Quebec would stay in Canada. I still don't understand why the ROC accepted this. I think that it is a waste of money to make something in both languages, if it is to be sold only in Quebec or only in Ontario.

I suspect a public backlash would occur, where 'English Canada' would over-react, and elect a polarized govermnent that would reject all things French. This might alienate some in New Brunswick, but, oh well...

Although NB is bilingual, in fact it is two third English and one third French (Acadia - Northeastern part of NB). I wonder if Acadia would not want to become part of Quebec or accept to live in an English-only country. They might become angry at us for leaving them alone.

I once read a science fiction book in which Quebec had become a country. In that book, the maritimes also formed a new country with New-England and Newfoundland had returned to UK.

I wonder what the world map would really look like in 3007.

 

[statsman]

There are lots of Canadians who have French as their first language who live neither in QB or NB.
Northern Ontario, the Qu'pelle Valley in SK come to mind right of the top.
Don't forget, the Province of Manitoba was admitted to the Dominion as French speaking.

 

[Newman]

More than 98% of Canadian residents speak either English or French. While the federal government remains officially bilingual, almost 99% of Canadian residents outside Quebec speak English and about 95% of Quebec residents speak French (2001 Census). Most Canadians outside Quebec are fluent only in English and many Quebeckers are fluent only in French. Wikipedia

I don't believe in the Canadian biliguism. I think that Quebec is French, NB is Bilingual and others are English. I think that the Canadian biliguism is just a dream that would never really happen.

By the way, that article in Wikipedia is very good. You should take a look at it.

 

[statsman]

I don't believe in the Canadian biliguism. I think that Quebec is French, NB is Bilingual and others are English. I think that the Canadian biliguism is just a dream that would never really happen.

By the way, that article in Wikipedia is very good. You should take a look at it.

Yet another leagacy left to us by PET.

 

[yippie_ky_yay]

It's like a teenager who is living with it's family...
Liberals say that we can live with mom and dad for ever.
PQ say that we should take a flat right away.
ADQ say that we must talk with mom and dad about the rules of the house 'cause we are no kids anymore. And, in the same time, get a job and save some money to be ready when the time comes to get in our own appartment.

I've heard this analogy before but what bothers me about it is that seperatists do not want to move out - they want to close off the living room.

The NEW Province of Quebec will include everything south of the St. Lawrence and the New Territories. The Republic of Quebec is made up of the rest.

I've always wondered what the "plan" would be but could never find anything on it (from either side of the issue). Do you have any references I could read up on?


I have a couple of good friends who are seperatists, but this is certainly one issue we can't talk about for very long. Not out of frustration, but more because it feels like I'm questioning them on their religion (it gets awkward fast).

-Sean

 

[MarkK]

I think official bilingualism is important to the extent that it protects the rights of the great majority of Canadians to be handled by their federal government in their mother tongue. An unimportant aspect of it, to me, is that cereal box labels, for instance, must be printed in both languages throughout the country. More importantly, at the federal level all legislation and all documents and services must be provided in both languages nation-wide. All legislative procedures, inquiries and processes must be conducted in both languages with immediate translations. You can't run a participatory democracy when a significant portion of the population doesn't understand the law or doesn't understand what their elected officials are talking about.
Official binlingualism protects the rights of linguistic minorities which exist throughout the country, both the English in Quebec and the French in other provinces.

 

[Rich]

What about the native Indian languages, where do they fit in?

 

[statsman]

Rich:
Under the Canadian Constitution(s) Canada is officially bi-lingual, English and French.
The term "Indian" is P.I. in Canada. We say Native or First Nations.
I guess that scraps your plan to emigrate.