Separation of Church and State

[Adam Caramon]

I thought that Islam was the religion followed by Muslims.

It is. My point is that the cross is a religious symbol. A burqa is an article of clothing.

Example:

Cross is equal to Star of David. Both are religious symbols.
Cross is not equal to yarmulke (the skull caps jewish men wear). The cross is a religious symbol, the yarmulke, while connected to a religion & culture, is not a religious symbol.

I think that the Burka is a cultural clothing item seized on by the fanatics as part of their subjugation of women.

I agree. There was a group here that was trying to make it where the women who wore burqas could do so when they got their driver's license picture. They were trying to say it was infringing upon their religion to force them to remove the face covering.

That, to me, is insane. Your face has to be visible on government-issued ID.

 

[Mike375]

The idea of Separation of Church and State is one thing. And it is a good idea (for the most part). But the current mindset is not Separation of Church and State. It is ELIMINIATION of Church from State. Which is basically what the Soviet Union took care of when the Communists took power in 1917.

An interesting thing to note is that it seems that the primary target of the elimination is of anything that has to do with the Christian religion. In fact, many of the current court rulings have declared that it is okay for certain OTHER religious dress and symbols to be present in public buildings and areas - such as Muslim Burqas being allowed for teachers in public school so they are not infringed upon for their religious freedom, however it is more and more not being allowed for teachers to wear a cross, for example, when teaching because that is a religious symbol. So, how is a cross any more a religious symbol than a burqa? A burqa identfies one's religion. A cross identifies one's religion. But they are being treated differently by the courts and by school officials.

It is also interesting that we have judges allowing Sharia Law principles to be followed in America which should not be happening. So, this for example, is one instance but it shows that it is more Separation of Christianity from State is more the true goal, and not separation of church and state. Maybe I guess they think that since Muslims don't have "church" it doesn't apply to them.

Bob

Identical in Australia

I think it is a general move to accommodate globalisation (politically) and that will be far easier if there is no national pride for your country or having a srong association with your country. Young people will grow up with it.

I reckon if I said to an 20 year old Australian tomorrow....how do you feel if the flag has part of the Chinese flag and a few Chinese are in our parliament.... he would probably think it was good idea.

Did you know that unless there are some changes then in the very near future, like this year, for an American astronaut to go to the International Space Station he will have to be flown to Russia and then NASA pays about $60 million for his ticket.

 

[Kryst51]

The burka has been banned in France.

Oh and The Beatles sell more on iTunes than god.

Col

You have no idea how glad I am that the Beatles are on Itunes.... I just discovered that the other day, do you know when Itunes got the ability to put the Beatles on there?

 

[Kryst51]

Did you know that unless there are some changes then in the very near future, like this year, for an American astronaut to go to the International Space Station he will have to be flown to Russia and then NASA pays about $60 million for his ticket.

Oh how the changes at NASA are effecting the Houston area.... So many friends of mine are losing jobs (and many others that I don't even know). As the job market is already low, I shudder to think how this is going to effect our local economy once the jobs are gone.

 

[ChipperT]

You have no idea how glad I am that the Beatles are on Itunes.... I just discovered that the other day, do you know when Itunes got the ability to put the Beatles on there?

Last month iTunes reached an agreement to be able to market Beatles tunes there. I wonder how much it cost them and how much they have already made?

 

[Thales750]

Oh how the changes at NASA are effecting the Houston area.... So many friends of mine are losing jobs (and many others that I don't even know). As the job market is already low, I shudder to think how this is going to effect our local economy once the jobs are gone.

You must be close to Clear Lake City.

 

[Mike375]

Oh how the changes at NASA are effecting the Houston area.... So many friends of mine are losing jobs (and many others that I don't even know). As the job market is already low, I shudder to think how this is going to effect our local economy once the jobs are gone.

Lots of people on the forum below are in the know. The Space Policy Discussion forum on the site.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php

 

[Kryst51]

You must be close to Clear Lake City.

Yup I go to church just North of there, a lot of my friends live there.

 

[Kryst51]

Lots of people on the forum below are in the know. The Space Policy Discussion forum on the site.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php

I'll have to check it out later.

 

[Adam Caramon]

I reckon if I said to an 20 year old Australian tomorrow....how do you feel if the flag has part of the Chinese flag and a few Chinese are in our parliament.... he would probably think it was good idea.

The flag part seems pretty silly. However, when you say "Chinese in our parliament" do you mean Chinese people as in citizens of China? Or Australian citizens who happen to be of Chinese ancestry?

The first seems completely idiotic, and I don't think anyone with a real solid understanding of government and politics would think it was a good idea.

You have no idea how glad I am that the Beatles are on Itunes.... I just discovered that the other day, do you know when Itunes got the ability to put the Beatles on there?

It was somewhat recently. There was a page on CNN dedicated to it.

 

[Vassago]

I don't think the cross argument is valid. Where are teachers told they cannot wear religious symbols of their own religion? It might be a case by case basis, but that's never been not allowed here. In fact, there's a story similar to that which happened to a friend of mine I went to school with.

There was a high school teacher at my school who was very very religious. She was Christian. She wore her crosses and such, and never tried to force her religion on anyone else. One of my friends in the class was Pagan. She wasn't only pagan, but her entire family was. She was raised as such. It was just as much a part of her expression and religion as Christianity was to the teacher. As such, she wore her pentagram, which is used by pagans as a symbol of faith and is actually considered a circle of protection for the wearer. Even Christians during the European takeover adopted the Pentagram to stand for the wounds of Christ (nails in both hands and feet, crown.) She wore it every day, as she's required within her religious beliefs. One day, the teacher saw it, and requested she remove it. She refused and even made the point the teacher was wearing her religious symbols as well. The teacher insisted it was distracting the students, who were looking around confused because the only one distracting us was the teacher. She was sent to the office. The principal was less offended by the pentragram, but asked why she couldn't just take it off. She insisted it was important for her to wear, as it truly is required by her faith. The principal said he had no choice but to suspend her. Long story short, the family took the school board to court to allow her to make up for the classwork missed and won, so she could pass her classes and graduate. Keeping religion out of the politics has no bearing on not being able to express your religious beliefs, so long as you don't enforce others to follow the same. Someone wearing a cross, pentagram, star of david, etc. in no way convinces me or anyone else to believe what they believe.

 

[Mike375]

The flag part seems pretty silly. However, when you say "Chinese in our parliament" do you mean Chinese people as in citizens of China? Or Australian citizens who happen to be of Chinese ancestry?

The first seems completely idiotic, and I don't think anyone with a real solid understanding of government and politics would think it was a good idea.

You missed the point and over anlayse. The young Australian is losing his connection with Australia as a country.

 

[Thales750]

Yup I go to church just North of there, a lot of my friends live there.

I go there regularly, my family lives down there, maybe we cab have a cup of coffee.

 

[Adam Caramon]

You missed the point and over anlayse. The young Australian is losing his connection with Australia as a country.

Having a love for your country is great. Having pride in being an Australian or British or American is great. But letting that love or pride turn into a seething hatred of others countries/peoples is dangerous.

 

[Mike375]

Having a love for your country is great. Having pride in being an Australian or British or American is great. But letting that love or pride turn into a seething hatred of others countries/peoples is dangerous.

What has that go to do with what I said about young Australians and their attitude.

As is the case in America there is a gradual removal of the things that identify with the countries and that I believe is for the move to global politics. And if younger Australians are a guide then it is working.

 

[Kryst51]

I go there regularly, my family lives down there, maybe we cab have a cup of coffee.

Ha, I know you used to live here... We've spoken about it before. I can't drink coffee but I can always find something to drink at a Starbucks.

 

[Rabbie]

You missed the point and over anlayse. The young Australian is losing his connection with Australia as a country.

Does this explain the result of the Ashes then

 

[Adam Caramon]

What has that go to do with what I said about young Australians and their attitude.

Well, I asked a question and you didn't answer it. The type of situation you were talking about could be construed as racist.

As is the case in America there is a gradual removal of the things that identify with the countries and that I believe is for the move to global politics. And if younger Australians are a guide then it is working.

I haven't seen that here, to be honest with you. We're pushed to be tolerant of others, and to respect diversity, but I haven't seen any overt movement to remove things that identify with our country.

 

[Mike375]

Does this explain the result of the Ashes then

Definitely high on the list of possibles

 

[Mike375]

Well, I asked a question and you didn't answer it. The type of situation you were talking about could be construed as racist.

Are you serious.

In case you don't know China is the real big country above Australia. If there were world type gov't there would be at least three. The Americas, Europe and the Asia/Pacific.

But if it was racist I could not care less.

I haven't seen that here, to be honest with you. We're pushed to be tolerant of others, and to respect diversity, but I haven't seen any overt movement to remove things that identify with our country.

Again, are you serious. Although if you are young leftie I could see how you would have that view.