Shootings in US schools

[Pauldohert]

So which bits of the US do I need a gun for protection.?

I can't beleive that you would let a poor tourist walk unsuspecting round a place where the locals think they need guns for protection.

Is Denver OK - do I need a gun there?

 

[ColinEssex]

Paul - notice how the American posters here point out places like e.g.the seedier parts of New York, or Chicago as being dangerous. Yet they also claim that they have a gun at home for protection.

Therefore, I would conclude that not all the US posters here live in the "gun hotspots" but, as they need a gun for protection in their area, it equates that almost nowhere is safe in the USA, or they wouldn't need a gun for protection.

Why not go self catering in Beirut?

Col

 

[ColinEssex]

But it's safer for Americans, Bush has said so

Only because they've been told to say they're Canadian. Mind you, at £1 = $2 they're not going to like how expensive things are. If they rent a car here, that $2 will buy (approx) 1.75 pints of petrol.

Col

 

[Pauldohert]

Yes Col, I have come round to the idea that in certain areas of the US, people feel they need a gun for protection, so I guess I will too. (In other areas I have been assured I will be OK.)?

Am I right in thinking in the dangerous/crime ridden places I need a gun for protection, (Crack houses in DC) whereas in more civilised locations I would not. (this should be in the lonely planet guide really!)

Now I just need to know which is which for when I go over - I can either avoid the places where even normal folk live in such fear that they need to carry a gun for protection , as I am not really a danger seeker - or perhaps if its somewhere I really want to go - I could protect myself with packing a pistol.
(Not in the luggage you understand - for some reason the need to arm yourself for protection doesn't apply to flights to the US - its only when you get to the US that protection is needed from those around you)


If I did decide to get a gun rather than miss some of these places - can I as a tourist get a gun?

 

[ColinEssex]

This is where things don't seem to be consistent.

We're reassured by US posters that what we see on TV news (police beating up people, mass killers on rampage etc) is very rare (there's only been 19 mass killings in the last 10 years).
Yet they feel the need to arm themselves to the teeth with racks of guns at home for protection.

Denver I heard its the highest airport above sea level? isn't that where John came from?

Col

 

[Pauldohert]

Denver I heard its the highest airport above sea level? isn't that where John came from?

Wasn't high enough above sea level, if thats where his last flight was from.

 

[ColinEssex]

The other thing to bear in mind, is that the BBC news said that 86 people were killed every day in the USA by guns.

Just keep away from schools and universities

Col

 

[Brianwarnock]

Although I have never felt threatened in the States it is interesting that none of the gun owning Americans have answered Paul's question.

Once in Tallahassee we were warned to keep away from the hotel windows as somebody had been shot through one the week before, I decided that the furthest place away was outside and went for a walk.

Denver is approximately at a mile high

Brian

 

[Brianwarnock]

Although I have never felt threatened in the States it is interesting that none of the gun owning Americans have answered Paul's question.

Once in Tallahassee we were warned to keep away from the hotel windows as somebody had been shot through one the week before, I decided that the furthest place away was outside and went for a walk.

Denver is approximately at a mile high

Brian

 

[Brianwarnock]

B@*&*y forum is misbehaving again, I think I'll go work on the garden.

Brian

 

[Bodisathva]

Although I have never felt threatened in the States it is interesting that none of the gun owning Americans have answered Paul's question.

From the interplay between he and Col, I was perceiving it as yet another tired vituperation so I was trying to ignore a question that I thought I answered through sarcasm. Against my better judgement, I'll retry.

There are certain places you just do go. They're not on the usual list of tourist destinations and these types of places exist everywhere in the world. When you look at them, you can tell you don't want to be there. When that little voice inside your head says "you sure you want to go down there?" you should probably listen to it. Follow your intuition, and I'm pretty sure you can manage to travel to anywhere in the world (even the Barbaric States) and not have a problem.

 

[Jakboi]

Well lets remember here the reason why we have the 2nd amendment, "Right to bear arms" is because of the struggle we had breaking away from England, I believe.

2nd Amendment:

"“ A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. "

Here's a excerpt from wiki:

The history and precedent leading to the 2nd Amendment begins several hundred years before its creation, and has it's origin in England. The concept of citizens or "subjects" bearing arms dates back to at least the 12th century when King Henry II obliagted all freemen to possess certain arms for defense. In the following century, King Henry III required every subject between the ages of fifteen and fifty to own a weapon other than a knife...

So we may have guns and have it a right to own weapons but history says why...

 

[Alc]

When Guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns and when all law-abiding citizens are disarmed they shall be at the mercy of those that have guns whenever and wherever those gun owners choose to violate society's RIGHTS under the law.

Quite right. And if more people used explosives to kill innocents then everyone should be issued with explosives, since prolonging the problem clearly makes more sense than attempting to resolve it.

Since the birth of this great nation, the people of the United States have been overwhelmingly active is assisting other countries, at their request or evidence of their dire straits

..or, indeed, after having sat back and done f**k-all to help, for over a year, while a war raged across many 'allied' countries. Joining in only once they were attacked themselves.

with the use of arms against their allies' attackers or oppressors who were also using arms to attack and oppress. Many of the beneficiaries of this assistance have forgotten or ignore the facts and consciously chose to ignore that their lives would be very different today had not the US aided in those countries' struggles of the past... And they criticize the US and look down their noses at its people, forgetting that the RIGHTS they have today that allow them to do so are in large part thanks to the aid received from their benefactor in time of their most desperate need

Indeed, we should thank Japan more often, since if it weren't for them the 'great' US might have sat back and done nothing for the entire course of WWII, as opposed to just the first quarter of it.

Had other students been armed, would he have so easily overpowered them? This question has been raised as well. Shouldn’t more people/teachers/students be required to and taught to responsibly handle handguns and be allowed to carry them by permit? Faced with the possibility of being shot for taking another’s life, would that have acted as a deterrent to the gunman?

Probably not - as you observed, he was mentally deranged.

The Rifle Club members on the VT campus have expressed this sentiment and stated that in the very least they would have not have felt so helpless. And had they encountered the gunman themselves they would not have let the rampage continue had they had their own weapon to defend themselves with.

And if more people used explosives to kill innocents then everyone should be issued with explosives, etc. etc.

The truth is: neither guns, nor their availability are to blame; the path this young man chose was his own, he had other paths to choose but did not. He shunned outside influences of any sort and isolated himself until he began to exist only within the paranoia that overwhelmed him and pushed him forward to his own destruction and the destruction of 33 others.

No, but the number might have been significantly lower if he'd been killing by hand.

 

[Brianwarnock]

So we may have guns and have it a right to own weapons but history says why...

But most civilised countries are nolonger living in the 12th or even 18th centuries, you may also have noticed that handguns and rifles are not being used by the insurgents in Iraq.

Brian

 

[Newman]

Paul, if I understand this quote correctly, you shouldn't go to the USA at all. They are all waiting for you!

Well lets remember here the reason why we have the 2nd amendment, "Right to bear arms" is because of the struggle we had breaking away from England, I believe.

 

[dan-cat]

..or, indeed, after having sat back and done f**k-all to help, for over a year, while a war raged across many 'allied' countries. Joining in only once they were attacked themselves.

Munich Agreement

 

[Brianwarnock]

Bodi
I think the point Paul was trying to make is that if all (most?) Americans own guns for protection it mustn't be safe anywhere, therefore should a tourist have a gun.

Brian

 

[Alc]

Paul - notice how the American posters here point out places like e.g.the seedier parts of New York, or Chicago as being dangerous. Yet they also claim that they have a gun at home for protection.

Therefore, I would conclude that not all the US posters here live in the "gun hotspots" but, as they need a gun for protection in their area, it equates that almost nowhere is safe in the USA, or they wouldn't need a gun for protection.

Why not go self catering in Beirut?

Col

Col, you're missing the logical process, that's all.
Guns = Dangerous
More Guns = Safety

Why are you having trouble following that?

 

[Alc]

This is where things don't seem to be consistent.

We're reassured by US posters that what we see on TV news (police beating up people, mass killers on rampage etc) is very rare (there's only been 19 mass killings in the last 10 years).
Yet they feel the need to arm themselves to the teeth with racks of guns at home for protection.

Once again, Col, missing the logical process.
I have a gun.
Bad things don't happen to me.
Therefore, having a gun is preventing bad things from happening to me.

I use much the same system to prevent crocodile attacks.
Every day, I throw a balled-up tissue down into my basement.
Every night, I clear it up.
Have I ever been attacked by a crocodile?
I think the results speak for themselves.

 

[Pauldohert]

From the interplay between he and Col, I was perceiving it as yet another tired vituperation so I was trying to ignore a question that I thought I answered through sarcasm. Against my better judgement, I'll retry.

Its a simple question, one which as you said you only answered with sarcasm.

There are certain places you just do go. They're not on the usual list of tourist destinations and these types of places exist everywhere in the world. When you look at them, you can tell you don't want to be there. When that little voice inside your head says "you sure you want to go down there?" you should probably listen to it. Follow your intuition, and I'm pretty sure you can manage to travel to anywhere in the world (even the Barbaric States) and not have a problem.

So I need a gun only in places like above, if thats true for me it must be true for the average american too, so anywhere where people have guns for protection is a dodgy, dangerous and threatening area where you wouldn't want to be? And owning guns for protection is quite common isn't it?

Follow your intuition, and I'm pretty sure you can manage to travel to anywhere in the world (even the Barbaric States) and not have a problem

Why would I be safer than all those who feel the need for a gun?(Baring in mind I will be visiting my mate at college there)