Shootings in US schools

[ShaneMan]

You should put that in the tourist brochure!


The statements are not sarcastic - if americans need a gun for protection do I need one. Its the americans who cannot tell me clearly if I need a gun or not. (Only Bodi has offered his opinion which I value - but it seems to be at odds with other opinions of the onwership of guns)

I just want clarification. Not much to ask as a guest of your country is it?

I don't own a gun. Have never bought a gun, and I don't think I'm the only American who can say this. I've never been shot. Have never had a gun pointed at me. You can take any topic and run with it to make it look however you want it to look. To ask if you need a gun when and if you come to visit us, in my opinion, is just being sarcastic.

 

[Bodisathva]

Yes, and a football is specifically designed to hold air within a leather case.

sounds like certain craniums...


And nuclear fission was originally developed to vaporize Nazis and Japanese. Most modern technological advances were developed in one form or another by or as a byproduct of the military from microwaves to nuclear power, but they also find applications in the private sector that are normally quite different from their military beginnings.

 

[ColinEssex]

Paul - I think you need to have a "green card" to get a gun from a supplier in the USA.
If memory serves correct, John Lennon had huge problems getting one.

You will be then classed (as the American cop said on TV) as "a legal alien"

So your bid to waltz down main street like Wyatt Earp could be a non-starter anyway.

I may be wrong, but I'm sure there are many in the wings who will gladly point this out.

Col

 

[Pauldohert]

I don't own a gun. Have never bought a gun, and I don't think I'm the only American who can say this. I've never been shot. Have never had a gun pointed at me. You can take any topic and run with it to make it look however you want it to look. To ask if you need a gun when and if you come to visit us, in my opinion, is just being sarcastic.

Me neither.


I guess if you believe I'm being sarcastic (I am genuinely not), you reckon anyone who says they need a gun for protection in the US is talking rubbish.

 

[ShaneMan]

Me neither.


I guess if you believe I'm being sarcastic (I am genuinely not), you reckon anyone who says they need a gun for protection in the US is talking rubbish.

No, but when I hear they need one for protection, then what goes through my mind is they need it if someone breaks into their home, as an example. I'm sure you have had that though go across your mind where you live and more than likely you have something prepared in case they do. Such as a baseball bat, maybe. Here, guns are legal so residents buy guns to protect their families and property. I guess having access to a gun to protect yourself with is the part that bothers you.

 

[Pauldohert]

No, but when I hear they need one for protection, then what goes through my mind is they need it if someone breaks into their home, as an example. I'm sure you have had that though go across your mind where you live and more than likely you have something prepared in case they do. Such as a baseball bat, maybe. Here, guns are legal so residents buy guns to protect their families and property. I guess having access to a gun to protect yourself with is the part that bothers you.

I will have a home even only a temporary one for the 3-4 weeks I am there.

I am still no clearer on the subject, as I say maybe its better someone who does believe in guns for protection answers.

How prevelent would that belief be?

 

[Alc]

sounds like certain craniums...


And nuclear fission was originally developed to vaporize Nazis and Japanese. Most modern technological advances were developed in one form or another by or as a byproduct of the military from microwaves to nuclear power, but they also find applications in the private sector that are normally quite different from their military beginnings.

So you feel that the difference between the reason guns were originally designed is sufficiently different from the way in which they are now designed that a comparison can be drawn between them and the other inventions you listed? Let's see.

Microwaves - Initially used to harm people, now used to cook food.
Nuclear fusion - Initially used to harm people, now provides energy.
Guns - Initially used to harm people....now?
Or are there special guns you're referring to, that do something entirely different? Perhaps they help around the home or provide cheap power to cities?

The fact that some people choose to use them for something other than what they were originally intended for is beside the point. What about the way some people trot out the old 'more people die from car accidents than from guns' bit every time someone gets shot? The difference there being that the deaths caused by cars were when people used the car for something other than it's intended purpose, the deaths from guns were the reverse.

 

[ColinEssex]

Paul, this'll cheer you up.

The risk of being killed by a firearm in the US is higher than in any other Western nation.

ref BBC

and I've been misquoting - I thought it was 86 people killed on average per day by the gun in USA - it's actually only 82

Shane - I don't have anything "prepared" in case someone breaks in and I don't know anyone that has. It's not something we're paranoid about.

I will say however, (to try to balance things) that I have security lights round the back garden that respond to movement. Also I have a lock on the garage door.

Security lights are good but are always coming on due to cats, hedgehogs, mice etc

Col

 

[dan-cat]

Point being?

Simple, during your discussion on gun ownership you decided to talk about the US's (non) involvement in WW2. I simply pointed out the extent to which the UK went to not get involved either. ie. The sacrifice of most of Czechoslovakia.

You berate the US for the exact same treatment you afforded the Czechs.

 

[Alc]

Paul - I think you need to have a "green card" to get a gun from a supplier in the USA.
If memory serves correct, John Lennon had huge problems getting one.

That's a pity, since - as pointed out by many posters - if he had owned one, he'd have been saved.
(getting the hang of the smileys)

 

[ShaneMan]

Paul, this'll cheer you up.

ref BBC

and I've been misquoting - I thought it was 86 people killed on average per day by the gun in USA - it's actually only 82

Shane - I don't have anything "prepared" in case someone breaks in and I don't know anyone that has. It's not something we're paranoid about.

I will say however, (to try to balance things) that I have security lights round the back garden that respond to movement. Also I have a lock on the garage door.

Security lights are good but are always coming on due to cats, hedgehogs, mice etc

Col

Hey Col,

Don't know that I necessarily mean "prepared" like something hanging over the bed. I think my reference is more to the fact that no matter where any of us live, we have folks in our society who are just plain mean. Steal, lie, whatever suits them, so with that being said, I have asked myself several times "what if someone came to my family with bad intent. What would I do?" I don't have a baseball bat, gun or anything but sometimes I wonder if I should. I don't think America is the only country that has part of their society who decide to take whats not theirs.

 

[ColinEssex]

That's a pity, since - as pointed out by many posters - if he had owned one, he'd have been saved.
(getting the hang of the smileys)

He was shot in the back 4 times by a cowardly American. He had no chance ref BBC

Col

 

[Alc]

Simple, during your discussion on gun ownership you decided to talk about the US's (non) involvement in WW2. I simply pointed out the extent to which the UK went to not get involved either. ie. The sacrifice of most of Czechoslovakia.

You berate the US for the exact same treatment you afforded the Czechs.

My comments were made in direct response to the lengthy story written by the original poster, where he harped on about the 'great' US having a history of coming to the aid of it's allies and how they should remember to be grateful.

When the UK and it's allies entered the second world war, it was before having been attacked. When the 'great' country eventually entered, it was only in self-defence.

The point I'm making is that if I watched someone beat you up for an hour and did nothing about it, I would have little reason to expect you to see me as some kindly benefactor if I later fought alongside you as a result of defending myself from another attack.

I don't remember anyone ever saying that the Czech people should be grateful to the British, but I constantly hear the whole 'You'd be speaking German if it weren't for us' routine from certain 'great' countries.

 

[Pauldohert]

Hey Col,

Don't know that I necessarily mean "prepared" like something hanging over the bed. I think my reference is more to the fact that no matter where any of us live, we have folks in our society who are just plain mean. Steal, lie, whatever suits them, so with that being said, I have asked myself several times "what if someone came to my family with bad intent. What would I do?" I don't have a baseball bat, gun or anything but sometimes I wonder if I should. I don't think America is the only country that has part of their society who decide to take whats not theirs.

Sure we have crime here. Whats it got to do with gun ownership?

 

[dan-cat]

That's a pity, since - as pointed out by many posters - if he had owned one, he'd have been saved.
(getting the hang of the smileys)

John Lennon of course is one of a long list of Brits who have enjoyed life in the US to such a degree as to purchase homes here. Money talks as they say.

 

[Alc]

He was shot in the back 4 times by a cowardly American. He had no chance ref BBC

Col

Irrelevant. Have you not been paying attention? If he owned a gun and had been 'properly trained' in it's use, he'd have been indestructible.

 

[Bodisathva]

The fact that some people choose to use them for something other than what they were originally intended for is beside the point. .

That is EXACTLY the point. 95% of the guns in my locked and secured cabinet were most certainly NOT designed to kill people. They are hunting rifles, shotguns, etc. Their designs are a matter of function and differ substantially from military or asssault type weapons. I also have several guns that are designed specifically for target shooting. Their shape and form is even more different than that of my hunting equipment and those guns in particular were not designed to kill anything.

My guns, as well as those of the people I know, are used for precisely what they were intended for. Despite Hollywood's best efforts to portray the contrary, Americans don't all have nickel plated 45's on our hips or M16s in the closets.

 

[ColinEssex]

Hey Col,

Don't know that I necessarily mean "prepared" like something hanging over the bed. I think my reference is more to the fact that no matter where any of us live, we have folks in our society who are just plain mean. Steal, lie, whatever suits them, so with that being said, I have asked myself several times "what if someone came to my family with bad intent. What would I do?" I don't have a baseball bat, gun or anything but sometimes I wonder if I should. I don't think America is the only country that has part of their society who decide to take whats not theirs.

We have burglaries here too. It's general these days in the UK to have double-glazed windows and doors (for insulation) but these also come with deadlocks which are extremely hard to break through.

Our houses are built with bricks - not the flimsy US wooden type that blow down in Florida. So taking a chain saw to a house in the UK would be ineffective.

The best burglar deterrant? get a dog, no question. Any burglar trying to break in would go deaf with the barking dog. Our Border Collie was brilliant at "warning us" of possible danger - he always got it wrong though, but at least he was alert.

Col

 

[ShaneMan]

Sure we have crime here. Whats it got to do with gun ownership?

Thought you said "as I say maybe its better someone who does believe in guns for protection answers"? I didn't say it had anything to do with gun ownership. What I did say is that every country has crime and I would think that most folks would at sometime or another think how would I or could I protect myself if that was to happen to me. I just so happens here, guns are legal, so folks buy guns to accomplish this. Guns are not legal where you live so you use a garden hose, bat, stick, something, I'm sure.

 

[Pauldohert]

That is EXACTLY the point. 95% of the guns in my locked and secured cabinet were most certainly NOT designed to kill people. They are hunting rifles, shotguns, etc. Their designs are a matter of function and differ substantially from military or asssault type weapons. I also have several guns that are designed specifically for target shooting. Their shape and form is even more different than that of my hunting equipment and those guns in particular were not designed to kill anything.

My guns, as well as those of the people I know, are used for precisely what they were intended for. Despite Hollywood's best efforts to portray the contrary, Americans don't all have nickel plated 45's on our hips or M16s in the closets.

82 dead a day according to Col, thats quite a few.