Shootings in US schools

[dan-cat]

My comments were made in direct response to the lengthy story written by the original poster, where he harped on about the 'great' US having a history of coming to the aid of it's allies and how they should remember to be grateful.

...and your comments were responded to by me.

When the UK and it's allies entered the second world war, it was before having been attacked. When the 'great' country eventually entered, it was only in self-defence.

I hate to tell you this but the UK's entrance into WW2 was not an altruistic act. It came after the realisation that the selling off of lands (which they did not own) to an aggressor was not going to stop them from being attacked themselves. It was an act of complete self-defense.

The point I'm making is that if I watched someone beat you up for an hour and did nothing about it, I would have little reason to expect you to see me as some kindly benefactor if I later fought alongside you as a result of defending myself from another attack.

I'm not attempting to defend the US's delay in entering WW2. I'm saying "people in glass houses..."

I don't remember anyone ever saying that the Czech people should be grateful to the British, but I constantly hear the whole 'You'd be speaking German if it weren't for us' routine from certain 'great' countries.

I hear alot of talk from Brits about how bad the US is but very little about famines in the Raj, concentration camps in South Africa, the Munich 'dictate', Anglo-Afghan wars, involvement in Gulf and Iraq wars etc etc...

 

[ColinEssex]

Despite Hollywood's best efforts to portray the contrary, Americans don't all have nickel plated 45's on our hips or M16s in the closets.

But I bet alot do. I hear its common in the US to keep a loaded gun in the glove box in the car in case of a carjacking or robbery attempt.

Col

 

[Pauldohert]

I didn't say it had anything to do with gun ownership.

I didn't think it was particularly relevent either. (or schools for that matter)

 

[ShaneMan]

We have burglaries here too. It's general these days in the UK to have double-glazed windows and doors (for insulation) but these also come with deadlocks which are extremely hard to break through.

Our houses are built with bricks - not the flimsy US wooden type that blow down in Florida. So taking a chain saw to a house in the UK would be ineffective.

The best burglar deterrant? get a dog, no question. Any burglar trying to break in would go deaf with the barking dog. Our Border Collie was brilliant at "warning us" of possible danger - he always got it wrong though, but at least he was alert.

Col

That's odd. I live here and didn't know we had "flimsy US wooden type" houses. Now not even our wood or our houses are good. I live in the Dallas/Fort Worth area and while I can't give you as exact percentage of brick verses siding homes, I would have to say brick has to go far beyond siding. Mine is log so I guess someone could take a chainsaw to it, if they really wanted to spent that much time getting through the wall. I would suggest breaking a window, though, it would be much faster. As far as a dog goes. Got four of them. My blonde lab barks at her own tail, so I think by now we are so use to her barking that a thief could walk up and tap me on the shoulder before I would know he/she was around.

 

[Pauldohert]

But I bet alot do. I hear its common in the US to keep a loaded gun in the glove box in the car in case of a carjacking or robbery attempt.

Where for Christsakes??? Must look at the itinery again.

 

[ColinEssex]

I hear alot of talk from Brits about how bad the US is but very little about famines in the Raj, concentration camps in South Africa, the Munich 'dictate', Anglo-Afghan wars, involvement in Gulf and Iraq wars etc etc...

The Raj? India went independent in 1948. Are you referring to current issues? or adopting the usual USA approach and going back centuries to find something

We built the UK and its Empire on slavery - so what? It was all the rage back then.

Col

 

[Alc]

I hate to tell you this but the UK's entrance into WW2 was not an altruistic act. It came after the realisation that the selling off of lands (which they did not own) to an aggressor was not going to stop them from being attacked themselves. It was an act of complete self-defense.

I never claimed altruism (and please don't presume to lecture me on my own country's past, I've met enough Americans to know which side of the Atlantic has a better grasp on history). I said we didn't sit back and do nothing until we were attacked so take offence at told we should be grateful to countries that did.

I hear alot of talk from Brits about how bad the US is but very little about famines in the Raj, concentration camps in South Africa, the Munich 'dictate', Anglo-Afghan wars, involvement in Gulf and Iraq wars etc etc...

Then you're talking to the wrong people. It was all covered in school in the UK and, unlike certain countries, there's no attempt to gloss over what we did.

 

[dan-cat]

The Raj? India went independent in 1948. Are you referring to current issues? or adopting the usual USA approach and going back centuries to find something

We built the UK and its Empire on slavery - so what? It was all the rage back then.

Col

I know you're not very interested in history Col, it's why you haven't got a clue as to why the world is as it is now.

 

[ColinEssex]

That's odd. I live here and didn't know we had "flimsy US wooden type" houses.

Thats because every time there's a hurricane, they get blown down, don't you see them all destroyed on the news?

Col

 

[ColinEssex]

I know you're not very interested in history Col, it's why you haven't got a clue as to why the world is as it is now.

Oh right, so it's our fault that the USA has so many mass killers and gun deaths

Glad we got that straight

Col

 

[ShaneMan]

Thats because every time there's a hurricane, they get blown down, don't you see them all destroyed on the news?

Col

Oh, I see what your talking about now. Our homes that are somewhere around 100 or more years old. Are your homes that are that old built out of brick?

 

[dan-cat]

I never claimed altruism (and please don't presume to lecture me on my own country's past, I've met enough Americans to know which side of the Atlantic has a better grasp on history).

So you assume authority on the subject do you

I said we didn't sit back and do nothing until we were attacked so take offence at told we should be grateful to countries that did.

No, British policy was not to sit back at all. Rather, try and feed the hungry aggressor with spoils of war, that it did not have the right to give in the first place. Then in this context you try and give this hogwash story that Britain entered WW2 not to defend itself but it's more unfortunate european neighbors. The Czechs don't see it that way and neither do I.

Then you're talking to the wrong people.

Now this point I can agree with

 

[Bodisathva]

82 dead a day according to Col, thats quite a few.

301,654,567 as of 14:42GMT today, 82 per...that's one in 3,678,714 people...I don't know that many people, so my original statement stands. (and lets not forget that accidents do happen and not all of those deaths are violent crime related)

But I bet alot do. I hear its common in the US to keep a loaded gun in the glove box in the car in case of a carjacking or robbery attempt.

Don't know any of those, either. I do hear that the unfortunate fellows that are responsible for carrying out repossessions on automobiles carry guns for protection...but I don't know any, so I couldn't help you there either. I'm sensing a pattern here, guys...either I'm not your stereotypical American, or your stereotypical American isn't a stereotypical American. I'm betting on the latter.

 

[ShaneMan]

Where for Christsakes??? Must look at the itinery again.

Forgot to warn you on that part Paul. Have you seen any of our western movies? Cowboys riding on horses and shooting at each other? Well, we still do that it's just that we use cars going down the freeway now.

 

[dan-cat]

Oh right, so it's our fault that the USA has so many mass killers and gun deaths

Glad we got that straight

Col

I didn't say that you were to blame for anything. I'm just telling you as to why you're so confused as to what's going on all the time.

 

[Alc]

So you assume authority on the subject do you

Not at all, just don't use the fallback of stating the obvious and preceding it with something along the lines of 'I hate to be the one to tell you this...'.

The Czechs don't see it that way and neither do I.

So you not only speak for the US but for the Czechs, too? Must keep you busy.

 

[Pauldohert]

301,654,567 as of 14:42GMT today, 82 per...that's one in 3,678,714 people

Thats alright then!

And only 32 at VT? Glad we have things in perspective. Irrelevent really, don't know what the fuss is!

 

[dan-cat]

Not at all, just don't use the fallback of stating the obvious and preceding it with something along the lines of 'I hate to be the one to tell you this...'.

So now it's an obvious fact that the UK entered the war solely for it's own defence. Good I'm glad you see it my way

So you not only speak for the US but for the Czechs, too? Must keep you busy.

Who said I spoke for the US Resorting to strawman arguments are we?

Oh and by the way, if you're historical schooling is as thorough as you claim then you'd know that the Munich agreement is commonly referred to as the Munich dictate in Czechoslovakia. Hope that's not too obvious for ya

 

[Bodisathva]

Thats alright then!

And only 32 at VT? Glad we have things in perspective. Irrelevent really, don't know what the fuss is!

neither do I

 

[Brianwarnock]

I have never met a British person who is proud of Munich, the best anybody offers is that we were buying time.
At school we were taught that we should have either
a) Defended Czechoslovakia, which was much better prepared than Poland
or
b) stayed away

but we did have treaties to honour so we honoured them, even after that great nation across the pond had screwed every brass farthing out of us.

What I object to is not that the US stayed out of the war until attacked, but that so many Americans seem to think that they mounted their white chargers and rode to our rescue for altuistic reasons , that long diatribe earlier even talked about "rescuing allies" , erm isn't that what one does?

Brian