The Lunatics are Now in Charge of the Asylum

[GaP42]

There are reasons why compulsory voting is rare. Most countries don't force their citizens to do it. Are you looking to enact 1984?

And you forgot, I did vote.

Animal Farm - Four legs good.
Your futility astounds me. As does your grasp of mathematics.

You alter the odds of someone else winning, just like with an election.

There are different styles of lottery - for some a winner is not guaranteed and carries over to the next event. So no, in these when you do not purchase a ticket you do not improve the chances of anyone else winning as little as that may be.

You live in a dismal world where you believe you cannot make a change through the election process, yet somehow elections do result in change - how do you explain that? .. keep living your reality.


Oh BTW even weather, at the smallest level is underpinned by quantum events - just like voting/not voting I guess, I think you do not have a clue...
SO are your actions totally governed by mathematical reality? Tie yourself in mathematical knots (not that I have really seen anything from you), but you do not have to rely on one aspect of mathematics (the probability of your vote making a difference) to make a decision to vote or not.

SO funny Logic! Ha Ha

 

[Space Cowboy]

It should be compulsory to vote.

Refusal to take part in the democratic process should result in restriction in use of available services that a democratically elected society provides.

No Passport to be issued - waste of time plane might crash
No driving License - waste of time car might crash or cause injury to a voter
NO NHS services - waste of time you are going to die anyway
No dental services - its only toothache it will fall out eventually
When you report a crime - dont turn up to investigate,

I agree that there should be a facility on the ballot that indicates non of the above candidates. But, hopefully the measures would help to facilitate an increased understanding of the political process and encourage members of that society to establish a set of principles or conditions that would enable someone to make a choice.

 

[Mike Krailo]

It should be compulsory to vote.

Refusal to take part in the democratic process should result in restriction in use of available services that a democratically elected society provides.

No Passport to be issued - waste of time plane might crash
No driving License - waste of time car might crash or cause injury to a voter
NO NHS services - waste of time you are going to die anyway
No dental services - its only toothache it will fall out eventually
When you report a crime - dont turn up to investigate,

I agree that there should be a facility on the ballot that indicates non of the above candidates. But, hopefully the measures would help to facilitate an increased understanding of the political process and encourage members of that society to establish a set of principles or conditions that would enable someone to make a choice.

Are you kidding me, there are too many apathetic do nothings that would flip a coin, because they don't care or worse, let someone else decide for them. That won't work and is very dangerous. That's like forcing everyone to be in the NRA here in the US to support the 2nd amendment.

 

[Jon]

Your futility astounds me. As does your grasp of mathematics.

I take that as a compliment. Thank you!

There are different styles of lottery - for some a winner is not guaranteed and carries over to the next event. So no, in these when you do not purchase a ticket you do not improve the chances of anyone else winning as little as that may be.

False. Whether or not a winner is guaranteed, the odds of you winning improve if there is one less person to compete with. Are you really trying to debate this? Seriously?

You live in a dismal world where you believe you cannot make a change through the election process, yet somehow elections do result in change - how do you explain that? .. keep living your reality.

You live in the same world as me. It is just that you are conflating your individual vote with group votes, or in other words, that your vote has more weight than it actually does. It is your lodged belief that you cannot be objective about. Elections result in change because of groups of people voting, but you are not a group.

Oh BTW even weather, at the smallest level is underpinned by quantum events - just like voting/not voting I guess, I think you do not have a clue...

Like I said before, you want to deliberately misinterpret my anologies so there is no point in discussing those further. It is all just noise.

SO are your actions totally governed by mathematical reality? Tie yourself in mathematical knots (not that I have really seen anything from you), but you do not have to rely on one aspect of mathematics (the probability of your vote making a difference) to make a decision to vote or not.

Would you like to show me one mathematical knot? I don't see any. My actions are influenced by mathematical reality, just like I wear a seat belt because the odds of injury go up if I don't wear one. Call it a vote for safety. There, I voted!

 

[Space Cowboy]

Are you kidding me, there are too many apathetic do nothings that would flip a coin, because they don't care or worse, let someone else decide for them. That won't work and is very dangerous. That's like forcing everyone to be in the NRA here in the US to support the 2nd amendment.

Everyone is already in the NRA, just not all decide to buy a gun.

 

[Jon]

It should be compulsory to vote.

Refusal to take part in the democratic process should result in restriction in use of available services that a democratically elected society provides.

No Passport to be issued - waste of time plane might crash
No driving License - waste of time car might crash or cause injury to a voter
NO NHS services - waste of time you are going to die anyway
No dental services - its only toothache it will fall out eventually
When you report a crime - dont turn up to investigate,

I agree that there should be a facility on the ballot that indicates non of the above candidates. But, hopefully the measures would help to facilitate an increased understanding of the political process and encourage members of that society to establish a set of principles or conditions that would enable someone to make a choice.

My car was stolen and the police did not turn up to investigate. They closed the report in 15 minutes. Useless!

 

[Jon]

Are you kidding me, there are too many apathetic do nothings that would flip a coin, because they don't care or worse, let someone else decide for them. That won't work and is very dangerous. That's like forcing everyone to be in the NRA here in the US to support the 2nd amendment.

Some people are interest in politics, some aren't. It is all too easy for those who are interested in something to expect others to be too. I play a lot of chess. For many people, it sends them to sleep. I expect them to have zero interest in the game.

Let those who are interested or know something about it vote. At least they can make their own informed decision.

 

[Mike Krailo]

I could never do the job of a police officer, some are just not cut out for that type of work and never was. If the police do their job well, they will make a concerted effort to recover your solen car and at least add it's description to their database of stolen cars to be on the lookout for. That does make me want to take lot's of pictures of all my valuables so I have a better record of all my possessions. At least the insurance should take care of you.

 

[Jon]

They did add it to a database and then closed the report. If a camera spots the number plate there is an alert. But the thieves change the number plates soon after they have stolen the car. They only catch 1 in 50 car thieves Sadly, the average increase in insurance premiums after a car theft is £628 per year, so I will be thousands out of pocket as a result. At the moment, I am driving around in a 20 year old Honda Jazz banger!

 

[Mike Krailo]

That sucks Jon.

 

[Jon]

That sucks Jon.

Yeah, that's life. When the police do nothing, the car thieves just keep stealing because they have a low risk of getting caught.

 

[GaP42]

Jon - you are welcome to take any compliments you can glean.

SO those lotteries where the participants pick numbers to try to match the numbers on a set balls: there is a fixed number of possibilities, no matter how many participants. Your decision not to play in a particular game does not increase the chances of anyone else participating in that game winning that lottery because the chance of getting the right combination of numbers does not change, and in some cases no one gets the winning combination. (I assume because you do not participate does not affect their decision to make more selections (a fairly safe bet)

Lotteries in which a winner is guaranteed - where selecting winning ticket must occur - is different.
However: Does the lottery require full subscription - in which case your non-participation does not have an effect on the chances of others winning because here are a fixed number of tickets/ potential winners.

For those that don't require full subscription, because you do not participate (and no ticket was purchased), then only if it can be considered that you have prevented someone else from purchasing a ticket - which does not seem possible - would the chances of anyone else in that lottery winning increase. You were not in the pool of participants and did not reduce the pool. (just like your suggestion that it is not worth voting, and therefore removing yourself from the pool of voters)
Enlightened yet?

Just to re-iterate:
1. Cotswold suggested people should not complain if they do not vote
2. I agreed and said it should be compulsory
3. You indicated that voting is pointless because one vote does not make a difference. I agree on a strictly mathematical basis that is true, however my argument was not about mathematics.
4. The analogies about p****** in the wind were flawed - you might disagree., but stretched and irrelevant
5. Mathematical knots - see the above: Cor Blimey mate!

See ya / yawn

 

[Space Cowboy]

My car was stolen and the police did not turn up to investigate. They closed the report in 15 minutes. Useless!

Thats because you didn't vote last time.

He He!


I visited a Garage a couple of years ago and they had just had 11 scania trucks at 76k each stolen in one night, all electronic. The thieves have the technology as the Main Dealers.

Faraday cages for the trackers and jammers ensure there is little chance of recovery.

 

[Jon]

SO those lotteries where the participants pick numbers to try to match the numbers on a set balls: there is a fixed number of possibilities, no matter how many participants. Your decision not to play in a particular game does not increase the chances of anyone else participating in that game winning that lottery because the chance of getting the right combination of numbers does not change, and in some cases no one gets the winning combination. (I assume because you do not participate does not affect their decision to make more selections (a fairly safe bet)

Lotteries in which a winner is guaranteed - where selecting winning ticket must occur - is different.
However: Does the lottery require full subscription - in which case your non-participation does not have an effect on the chances of others winning because here are a fixed number of tickets/ potential winners.

For those that don't require full subscription, because you do not participate (and no ticket was purchased), then only if it can be considered that you have prevented someone else from purchasing a ticket - which does not seem possible - would the chances of anyone else in that lottery winning increase. You were not in the pool of participants and did not reduce the pool. (just like your suggestion that it is not worth voting, and therefore removing yourself from the pool of voters)
Enlightened yet?

Just to re-iterate:
1. Cotswold suggested people should not complain if they do not vote
2. I agreed and said it should be compulsory
3. You indicated that voting is pointless because one vote does not make a difference. I agree on a strictly mathematical basis that is true, however my argument was not about mathematics.
4. The analogies about p****** in the wind were flawed - you might disagree., but stretched and irrelevant
5. Mathematical knots - see the above: Cor Blimey mate!

See ya / yawn

Depends on the lottery. You are indeed right if a specific number has to be achieved and the numbers are not divided up between all the participants. But even on lotteries where there are guaranteed winners, sometimes people don't collect the winnings and in those winnings carry over to the next lottery event. But this is all a sideshow which you want to focus on to avoid the truth behind the futility of your vote. How many elections did you change as a result of your vote? Still waiting!

3. You indicated that voting is pointless because one vote does not make a difference. I agree on a strictly mathematical basis that is true

We agree on something then. Perhaps we should leave it at that.

 

[ColinEssex]

For the first time, since I was eligible to vote, I decided not to vote. The reason is simple, I looked at the different parties manifestos and listened to the debates and candidates speaking on TV.
In my opinion (only my opinion), I came to the conclusion that this time there was very little difference between parties. So I took the decision that whoever is in power, I will support them and wish them a good governmental run.
I am rapidly approaching 80 years old, my priorities are now different from when I was 40, obviously health service is important and pension etc. All parties addressed this and more or less said the same.
It's nothing to do with laziness or lethargy, and you can feel free to criticise me and the thousands who didn't vote, but be aware that more thought went into not voting than many who did vote for the same party as the generations before them.
I also think the British are not so passionate about elections as the Americans are, look how heated the debates here are about the 2 American candidates. We know Trump will get in one way or another, yet still, the members here argue like alley cats.
Col

 

[Cotswold]

Haven't we got enough laws and diktats?

 

[AccessBlaster]

Haven't we got enough laws and diktats?

How about we reduce a few, starting with the redundant ones.

 

[Pat Hartman]

How about we reduce a few, starting with the redundant ones

The legal code is far more complex than it needs to be. "Thou shall not steal" -- seems to cover a lot of bases. Why would the law be different for cars than for software? Taking something that doesn't belong to you is stealing. In the case of software, it might not be a physical disk and it might not deprive others of its use but you still didn't pay for it.

Police departments are perpetually squeezed for money so crimes like car theft get short changed because the victim has "insurance" and so technically, his loss is minimized. But as Jon points out, it is still a lot of money given your deductible plus what happens to your insurance rates. This is the "other people's money syndrome" which also infects our elected officials.

Theft and cheating causes ALL of us to have to play significantly higher insurance rates.

 

[Isaac]

Britain now has Loony Labour as its government.
The second party to challenge them, is run by a bungee jumping bird-brain underachiever.

The Etonites had become the three monkeys over the last ten years.
Yes, all those pompous Etonites whose education was on how to run an empire we don't have.
Totally clueless Bungalow Boris, Camoron et al. Then May and Truss who really trussed us up.

Now we have a government that only offers an anticipation of great foreboding to the people.
It had to change though. Let us hope that they don't do too much damage in the next four years.

I did hear the conservatives got trounced and felt very sad for it. I do hope for your sake they don't do too much damage in the next few years.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

For the first time, since I was eligible to vote, I decided not to vote. The reason is simple, I looked at the different parties manifestos and listened to the debates and candidates speaking on TV.
In my opinion (only my opinion), I came to the conclusion that this time there was very little difference between parties. So I took the decision that whoever is in power, I will support them and wish them a good governmental run.
I am rapidly approaching 80 years old, my priorities are now different from when I was 40, obviously health service is important and pension etc. All parties addressed this and more or less said the same.
It's nothing to do with laziness or lethargy, and you can feel free to criticise me and the thousands who didn't vote, but be aware that more thought went into not voting than many who did vote for the same party as the generations before them.
I also think the British are not so passionate about elections as the Americans are, look how heated the debates here are about the 2 American candidates. We know Trump will get in one way or another, yet still, the members here argue like alley cats.
Col

Col, thank you for a rational (and sensible) explanation of why you chose to not vote. None of the likely outcomes mattered to you. I don't know whether this relates more to a number of candidates somehow agreeing on several policy matters or just simple coincidence.

@Jon other other hand appears to have a nihilistic view on voting. He doesn't see his tiny vote making a difference, though the laws of statistics were derived in a way that showed WHY it makes a difference. If we consider a single molecule of C8H18 (a.k.a. octane, an aliphatic hydrocarbon), it only contributes a very little bit of heat when combusted. So it shouldn't matter whether it ignites or not in your internal combustion engine. Yet if you have a large number of octane molecules combusting all at once, your engine revs up and you can travel very fast. If a few of those octane molecules DON'T combust during the Otto cycle, you end up loudly expelling a noxious gas from your tailpipe. Jon, do YOU want to be compared to a loud and obnoxious gas emission?

You know my sense of humor HAS to show itself.