Verdict

[MarkK]

Currently, rampant antisemitism is sweeping across this country and the world.

Because there was no antisemitism in, say, 1943? Antisemitism is a fixture in the world and in history. There is no "sweeping."

 

[AngelSpeaks]

so when does sentencing begin? and can he still run for president or not?

Yes.

 

[moke123]

Legal expensive is a generic umbrella term, just like admin. If your lawyer is setting up a company for you, then do you have to put in "setting up company" or legal expense? Taking care of an NDA is surely a legal expense. But despite all this, there is nothing except the word of Cohen to say that his retainer money was a hush money payment.

here's a link to all the documents used at trial https://pdfs.nycourts.gov/PeopleVs.DTrump-71543/Evidence/

These may be the docs your looking for

 

[Steve R.]

Democracy is the belief that if all voices are heard, and issues are debated openly and fairly, that the majority of people will make the best choice.

In this regard, if you do not see your opponents, and those with whom you disagree, as being an essential part of what democracy requires, then you are a threat to democracy.

Based on your definition, we do not live in a democracy. You must be working for Biden's (Orwellian) Ministry of Information. Conservative voices are shutdown (censored) and the Justice Department uses lawfare for criminalize political opponents. In 2022, Biden Establishes a Ministry of Truth. It is now defunct, but not dead. (PS: Technically we live in a Republic, but that has been slowly eroding.)

Because there was no antisemitism in, say, 1943? Antisemitism is a fixture in the world and in history. There is no "sweeping."

Antisemitism has existed for thousands of years. Seems that you are missing that it has been re-emergent. Moreover consider that Biden publicly and zealously promotes divisive anti-White hatred yet when real violence emerges against the Jews emerges he is essentially silent. Biden, for example, has failed to implement civil rights violations against those attacking the Jews. Moreover, Biden also plays word games by cautioning us against (fake) Islamophobia when it is the Jews who are being attacked. Biden has come-out-of-the-closet to be pro-Hamas, pro-Iranian, and anti-Jewish.
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Get Trump: The Threat to Civil... book by Alan Dershowitz

Alan Dershowitz has been called "one of the most prominent and consistent defenders of civil liberties in America" by Politico and "the nation's most peripatetic civil liberties lawyer and one of its most distinguished defenders of individual rights" by Newsweek.

Get Trump makes clear that unconstitutional efforts to stop Trump from retaking the presidency challenge the very foundations of our liberty: due process, right to counsel, and free speech. Those who justify these dangerous departures from the rule of law argue that the threat posed by a second Trump presidency is "different" and "immediate," while the departures from constitutional norms are longer term and more abstract.

Dershowitz explains that defenders of Trump's constitutional rights--even those like him who oppose Trump politically--are sought to be silenced; their free speech rights attacked, their integrity questioned, and their careers threatened. Much of the media substitutes advocacy against Trump for objective reporting, while many in academia petition and propagandize against rights they previously valued--all in the interest of getting Trump.

The essence of justice is that it must be equally applicable to all, Dershowitz notes. No one is above the law but digging to find crimes in order to influence an election does not constitute the equal application of the law. In order to assure equal application in comparable situations, he proposes two criteria for indicting a likely candidate of the opposing party: the Richard Nixon standard and the Hillary Clinton standard--and most recently, the Joe Biden standard.

Get Trump warns that regardless of whether this anti-democratic effort to stop Trump from running succeeds or fails, it is likely to create dangerous precedents that will lie around like loaded weapons ready to be deployed against other controversial candidates, officials, or citizens about whom it can be argued that the danger they pose "is different."

 

[AccessBlaster]

Democracy is the belief that if all voices are heard,

Unless you're a pesky truck driver who had their bank accounts frozen for peacefully demonstrating.

 

[Steve R.]

My ears perked-up when Biden remarked that the persecution of Trump was a state matter and not a federal matter. This matters significantly since the state prosecutors alleged that Trump's misdemeanor accounting "error" enabled them to use it as a "bridge" for the state to enforce federal election law. The irony is that the Biden administration has been filing lawsuits against states such as Texas, Arizona, Iowa, and Oklahoma for using state law to enforce federal immigration laws. Once again, the Biden administration has demonstrated lawless in its application of the law.

 

[moke123]

My ears perked-up when Biden remarked that the persecution of Trump was a state matter and not a federal matter. This matters significantly since the state prosecutors alleged that Trump's misdemeanor accounting "error" enabled them to use it as a "bridge" for the state to enforce federal election law. The irony is that the Biden administration has been filing lawsuits against states such as Texas, Arizona, Iowa, and Oklahoma for using state law to enforce federal immigration laws. Once again, the Biden administration has demonstrated lawless in its application of the law.

Except NY cannot and is not enforcing federal law. Trump was not charged, nor convicted, of any federal laws.

 

[Steve R.]

Except NY cannot and is not enforcing federal law. Trump was not charged, nor convicted, of any federal laws.

If you want to assert that approach, the states passed their own immigration laws which means that the Biden administration had no basis to file charges against against those states.

 

[Jon]

here's a link to all the documents used at trial

Is that in Trump's handwriting? If so, where does it say these documents are for hush money payments?

When it comes to the bookkeeping entry, has anyone actually said what classification is should be under, if it is not legal expenses? Where is the actual evidence that says Trump asked his bookkeeper to put this under legal expense? It is only Cohen who says this was the scheme.

I would really like to know what the proper classification is for this. It seems that in America, you can make a slight bookkeeping error and you can get 130 years in prison! And I'm not saying Trump's bookkeeper did make an error.

How does falsifying a bookkeeping entry influence an election? I find that mad!

 

[moke123]

where does it say these documents are for hush money payments?

The trump org comptroller testified that's what it was and it's their handwriting.

 

[moke123]

When it comes to the bookkeeping entry, has anyone actually said what classification is should be under

I think your missing the point. The handwritten notes are the CFO and Comptroller figuring out the numbers by doubling the $180,000 Cohen paid out and threw in some extras. they did this because Cohen is in the 50 percent tax bracket so it covers the taxes when they treat it as income rather than a reimbursement. The final figure was $420,000. Then it was decided that it would be paid out over a year at $35,000 a month and that Cohen would submit phony invoices for legal services that were never performed. I think he was also still a trump org employee at that same time.

How do you not know this? It is central to the case.

 

[Pat Hartman]

n this regard, if you do not see your opponents, and those with whom you disagree, as being an essential part of what democracy requires, then you are a threat to democracy.

I presume you are talking to the people who think that I should not be allowed to vote for DJT because he might accidentally win. You know, those people who have been trying to get him off the ballots and failing that, throw him in jail over a book keeping dispute that Hillary was fined $106,000 for. Obama's bookkeeping "error" cost him $2 million. But Trump being the evil orange man that he is, was charged with 34 felonies - which apparently were all the same "crime" but each payment was charged separately to make the "crime" seem far worse than it was and to multiply the jail sentence.

That is how a banana republic operates. Different treatment for different people. Did you hear the answer and see the snarky smile Biden replied to the reporter with when asked about the verdict? That says it all.

 

[Jon]

The trump org comptroller testified that's what it was and it's their handwriting.

By their, do you mean the comptroller or Trump's?

 

[moke123]

By their, do you mean the comptroller or Trump's?

The handwriting is the controller McConney, the CFO Weisselberg, and the redfinch part is Cohen. It was the comptroller McConney who testified what it was.

You haven't seen this?

 

[Jon]

I think your missing the point. The handwritten notes are the CFO and Comptroller figuring out the numbers by doubling the $180,000 Cohen paid out and threw in some extras. they did this because Cohen is in the 50 percent tax bracket so it covers the taxes when they treat it as income rather than a reimbursement. The final figure was $420,000. Then it was decided that it would be paid out over a year at $35,000 a month and that Cohen would submit phony invoices for legal services that were never performed. I think he was also still a trump org employee at that same time.

How do you not know this? It is central to the case.

I'm not missing any point. The People are stating that he misclassified business expenses. In other words, he should not have put it down as legal expense. Without that misdemeanour, you cannot tack on an extra crime. So my question is, what should he have put it down as to satisfy the People?

 

[Jon]

The handwriting is the controller McConney, the CFO Weisselberg, and the redfinch part is Cohen. It was the comptroller McConney who testified what it was.

You haven't seen this?

I am not sure why you consider this proof of fraud, considering McConney never said they were hush money payments. There is no evidence, as far as I am aware, that Trump ever saw these documents.

But let us for the sake of argument say this is 100% proof. How does that influence an election when these are private bookkeeping records?

 

[Jon]

@moke123 Do you think Merchan is biased against Trump?

 

[Jon]

Unbelievable! I was asking Microsoft Copilot about what the correct classification should be for hush money payments, and it went into plenty of detail about Trump and the case. However, when I asked about how Hillary Clinton classified her payment to her lawyers for the salacious dossier I get the following response:

Is the system rigged against Trump and the Republicans, from woke AI, to social media companies from the DOJ to state courts and the Whitehouse?

 

[moke123]

THE GRAND JURY OF THE COUNTY OF NEW YORK, by this indictment, accuses the defendant of the crime of FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS IN THE FIRST DEGREE, in violation of Penal Law §175.10, committed as follows:

The defendant, in the County of New York and elsewhere, on or about February 14, 2017, with intent to defraud and intent to commit another crime and aid and conceal the commission thereof, made and caused a false entry in the business records of an enterprise, to wit, an invoice from Michael Cohen dated February 14, 2017, marked as a record of the Donald J. Trump Revocable Trust, and kept and maintained by the Trump Organization.

SECOND COUNT:
AND THE GRAND JURY AFORESAID, by this indictment, further accuses the defendant of the crime of FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS IN THE FIRST DEGREE, in violation of Penal Law §175.10, committed as follows:

The defendant, in the County of New York and elsewhere, on or about February 14, 2017, with intent to defraud and intent to commit another crime and aid and conceal the commission thereof, made and caused a false entry in the business records of an enterprise, to wit, an entry in the Detail General Ledger for the Donald J. Trump Revocable Trust, bearing voucher number 842457, and kept and maintained by the Trump Organization.

The false records are Cohen's invoices and the ledger entries are based on false records. It could say "Tooth paste" and it would still be fraudulent.

@moke123 Do you think Merchan is biased against Trump?

No I don't. Trial Judges bend over backwards to be fair during trial. I know several Judges and dozens of D.A.'s and Defense Attorneys, as well as defendants. I hear the stories from all sides. I think Merchan showed a lot of restraint. Most defendants would have been locked up for violating a court order. The one thing you don't want to do however is piss off the judge who's going to sentence you. There's a lot of factors that are considered. Trumps gag order violations, his rants during court recesses, his continued denigration of the legal process, is all going to bite him in the ass. I think Merchan is almost obligated to sentence him to prison time, although likely suspended with conditions.

 

[Steve R.]

x.com

x.com

The above is from Twitter, now X. Below is the text.

CNN Senior Legal Analyst Describes How The Trump Conviction Was A Political Hit Job

1. "The judge donated money... in plain violation of a rule prohibiting New York judges from making political donations—to a pro-Biden, anti-Trump political operation."

2. Alvin Bragg boasted on the campaign trail in an overwhelmingly Democrat county, “It is a fact that I have sued Trump over 100 times.”

3. "Most importantly, the DA’s charges against Trump push the outer boundaries of the law and due process."

4. "The charges against Trump are obscure, and nearly entirely unprecedented. In fact, no state prosecutor — in New York, or Wyoming, or anywhere — has ever charged federal election laws as a direct or predicate state crime, against anyone, for anything. None. Ever."

5. The DA inflated misdemeanors past the statute of limitations and "electroshocked them back to life" by alleging the falsification of business records was committed 'with intent to commit another crime.'

6. "Inexcusably, the DA refused to specify what those unlawful means actually were — and the judge declined to force them to pony up — until right before closing arguments. So much for the constitutional obligation to provide notice to the defendant of the accusations against him in advance of trial."

7. "In these key respects, the charges against Trump aren’t just unusual. They’re bespoke, seemingly crafted individually for the former president and nobody else."

8. "The Manhattan DA’s employees reportedly have called this the “Zombie Case” because of various legal infirmities, including its bizarre charging mechanism. But it’s better characterized as the Frankenstein Case, cobbled together with ill-fitting parts into an ugly, awkward, but more-or-less functioning contraption that just might ultimately turn on its creator."