Are you an atheist? (1 Viewer)

[Bladerunner]

I am afraid you still have not answered the question which is quite simple.

Does God in your opinion know what is going to happen to any individual?

If your answer to this is "No" then His powers are limited and He is not all-powerfull.

If your answer is "No" then every life is predetermined and "Free will" is illusory.

Of course if those of us who do not believe in God are correct we do have "Free Will" and all the responsibility for our actions that that entails.

I hope you and yours have a Happy and Prosperous New Year

YES! He knows and yet you still have free unlimited unrestricted choice(s).

Imagine a wheel, you in the center and coming out of the center is an unlimited number of spokes upon spokes upon spokes. Each spoke is connected to a specific place on a rim (the results of your choice(s), your destiny). Like a good chess master he knows the end result for each move (choice). Unlike a chess master, he knows this for everyone,all 6.5 billion on earth and all other beings on worlds in all universes. Unlike a good chess master, he does not restrict or manipulate your moves (choices).

On the other hand, you salvation depends on only two choices out of the millions you make throughout you lifetime. You either Believe in Jesus Christ or you do not believe in him. The choices are yours and yours alone. By being Agnostic you have made your choice although until you die, you can change that choice.

Now have 2 hours before 2014: Hope everyone has a good one..:>)

Bladerunner

 

[Mihail]

@bladerunner
About your post #3421.
This post is intended to be an answer for me while yo quote my previous post.
Bu it isn't.
My question was:

Can someone show me a single example where the non-believers started a "war" against believers ?

Your "answer":

I guess it depends upon what you call non-believers. There is a war against Christianity around the world. Look to the middle east where Christian are be killed just because they are Christians and believe different from others around them

So, not the non-believers kill the Christians. The killers are other believers.
What you name non-believers ? The people that are not Christians ?
In my opinion, Ben Laden is a believer. A very true believer. Because he believe that Allah is the God and He (Allah) is the single God. As well as you. The single difference is the god's name.

You say:

There is also war against Christianity in the U.S. today as well. It appears the Liberal far left (non-believers) need to remove the church or at least minimize their influence on the political stage

Do you remember Christ's words ?
"Give to Cesar what the Cesar own" (not sure about my English, but sure that you understand what I mean). Why the churches activate in the political area ? Why the clerical wish to activate in the political area ? Should I understand that is write, somewhere, in the Bible, something like this : "You, the believers, must take the political power or, if you will fail, you will end up to Hell ?"
I have read the Bible but I can't remember this part. Are you so kind to point me in the right direction ?

Every Communist nation is considered a non-believer by most. usually This is not true for that nations people. Usually the non-believer are part of the ruling or Political class

Indeed. And this non-believer class don't persecuted the believers. Just ignore they.
What happen when the believers have take the power ?
Inquisition, Giordano Bruno, witches, "et pour se mouve", burns, and the list is open.

Being from Romania you should know that Russia moved those churches because it was easier to move them than to defeat Christianity itself

Again I must say that you are right (it is easier to move a church than to defeat Christianity), but no logic. The Christianity can't be defeated by destroying one or more churches. But the Russians (and the Romanians too) can save (don't know grammar for the past) a lot of money by using dinamit. But the don't used this. Why ?

At least when they moved the churches they maintained some control over the population

????????????? How ?

Yes the Roman church did kill him because they did not believe.

Any time you reduce the believers to Christians. Why ? There are a lot of other believers. Just they are not Christians. And, like all other believers, say, about all others, that this are non-believers.

Don't know about he burning?

Indeed ? Should I understand that you never heard until now about Inquisition ?

Have a Happy and Safe New Year!

Thank you for this. And believe me I wish this for each one from the Terra. I don't care if his god is named Dumnezeu (Romanian language), Zeus, Jupiter, Allah or if he think that is no god in the sky or under the ground.

 

[Brianwarnock]

Oh Mihail
You hit the nail on the head, ( an English phrase meaning you got it absolutely correct) with this statement

So, not the non-believers kill the Christians. The killers are other believers.
What you name non-believers ? The people that are not Christians ?
In my opinion, Ben Laden is a believer. A very true believer. Because he believe that Allah is the God and He (Allah) is the single God. As well as you. The single difference is the god's name.

This is the single biggest problem with religious folk. They don't realise that if circumstances of their birth had been different they would probably be believing in a different religion.
Ok I know some change, but for those disparate to believe or who believe without question the early brainwashing is difficult to discard.

Brian

 

[Brianwarnock]

YES! He knows and yet you still have free unlimited unrestricted choice(s).


Bladerunner

If the answer is YES then our life must be predetermined, we may appear to make choices but they must have been preprogrammed into us.

Saying that he knows what we are going to do but that we have a choice that can change our life is illogical.
I hope that the logic you use in your programs is better.

Brian

 

[Galaxiom]

@bladerunner
What you name non-believers ?

Good question.

Blade already said we are all believers. He recons atheists also have a faith in no god and it is really just another religion.

 

[ColinEssex]

The impression we get in the UK is that most Americans are Jewish. Or at least most of the successful ones are.

Col

 

[Mihail]

The impression we get in the UK is that most Americans are Jewish. Or at least most of the successful ones are.

The same impression in Romania.

Personally I don't know the truth about this.
But, if this is true, I think I have the explanation:

Their religion is the single I know (I read this somewhere) that "force" the younger to go to school.
To school at all, not to the religion's school. (unlike the most other religions that damned the non-religions knowledge).

 

[Mihail]

By reading Brian's post #3431, I remembered one of my teacher (Philosophy) that ask a simple questions (regarding to "all powers", "all skills" etc of the gods).
Has any god the power to suicide ?

 

[Rabbie]

By reading Brian's post #3431, I remembered one of my teacher (Philosophy) that ask a simple questions (regarding to "all powers", "all skills" etc of the gods).
Has any god the power to suicide ?

Any all-powerful God must have the power of suicide. If he/she chooses to use it perhaps the universe ends

 

[Mihail]

So... the god's are not immortals ?

 

[Rabbie]

So... the god's are not immortals ?

Just to clarify. I do not believe in gods, immortal or otherwise but if there was an All-powerful being who created the universe and was immortal I see no reason why he/she could not decide to terminate his/her existence together with the universe. I see no problem with the internal logic of that position but this is only an imaginary being made up by me I can make my own rules

 

[Brianwarnock]

but this is only an imaginary being made up by me I can make my own rules

Sounds like the basics for a religion to me.


Brian

 

[Rabbie]

Sounds like the basics for a religion to me.


Brian

You can be high Priest if you like, Brian

 

[Mihail]

Just to clarify. I do not believe in gods...

I already understand that from your previous posts.

I see no problem with the internal logic of that position but this is only an imaginary being made up by me I can make my own rules

I am a happy man because I can see the very beginning start of a new religion

 

[Bladerunner]

Just to clarify. I do not believe in gods, immortal or otherwise but if there was an All-powerful being who created the universe and was immortal I see no reason why he/she could not decide to terminate his/her existence together with the universe. I see no problem with the internal logic of that position but this is only an imaginary being made up by me I can make my own rules

One more thought for you. Consider the love you have for your family, the one you helped create. You love them enough to do anything to keep them alive. LOVE is the word!

Have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

 

[Bladerunner]

I already understand that from your previous posts.



I am a happy man because I can see the very beginning start of a new religion

and what fledgling religion is that, pray tell?

Have a nice day:>)

Bladerunner

 

[Bladerunner]

If the answer is YES then our life must be predetermined, we may appear to make choices but they must have been preprogrammed into us.

Saying that he knows what we are going to do but that we have a choice that can change our life is illogical.
I hope that the logic you use in your programs is better.

Brian

Now we getting a little philosophical here aren't we. OK, use the computer. we as programmers design choices for the user. The number of choices range from tens to thousands of choices.

The problem with human beings is that we are not computers. We make a million decisions in one hour (unless we are sleeping). Each thought takes us in the direction of our final destiny. Yes, I would call that being who could pre-program our every thought for a lifetime times billions upon billions of beings throughout the universe "GOD".

Have a nice day :>)


Bladerunner

 

[Bladerunner]

@bladerunner
About your post #3421.
This post is intended to be an answer for me while yo quote my previous post.
Bu it isn't.
My question was:

Your "answer":

So, not the non-believers kill the Christians. The killers are other believers.
What you name non-believers ? The people that are not Christians ?
In my opinion, Ben Laden is a believer. A very true believer. Because he believe that Allah is the God and He (Allah) is the single God. As well as you. The single difference is the god's name.

You say:
Do you remember Christ's words ?
"Give to Cesar what the Cesar own" (not sure about my English, but sure that you understand what I mean). Why the churches activate in the political area ? Why the clerical wish to activate in the political area ? Should I understand that is write, somewhere, in the Bible, something like this : "You, the believers, must take the political power or, if you will fail, you will end up to Hell ?"
I have read the Bible but I can't remember this part. Are you so kind to point me in the right direction ?

Indeed. And this non-believer class don't persecuted the believers. Just ignore they.
What happen when the believers have take the power ?
Inquisition, Giordano Bruno, witches, "et pour se mouve", burns, and the list is open.

Again I must say that you are right (it is easier to move a church than to defeat Christianity), but no logic. The Christianity can't be defeated by destroying one or more churches. But the Russians (and the Romanians too) can save (don't know grammar for the past) a lot of money by using dinamit. But the don't used this. Why ?

????????????? How ?

Any time you reduce the believers to Christians. Why ? There are a lot of other believers. Just they are not Christians. And, like all other believers, say, about all others, that this are non-believers.

Indeed ? Should I understand that you never heard until now about Inquisition ?

Thank you for this. And believe me I wish this for each one from the Terra. I don't care if his god is named Dumnezeu (Romanian language), Zeus, Jupiter, Allah or if he think that is no god in the sky or under the ground.

Seems to me all we are doing here is playing games. Mihail, who do consider on this earth as non-believers?

You said: "In my opinion, Ben Laden is a believer. A very true believer. Because he believe that Allah is the God and He (Allah) is the single God. As well as you. The single difference is the god's name."

Ben Laden was a murderer just like Mohammed as any in history. If you want to call Allah a god, so be it, but he believes in killing or enslaving non-believers. Don't think they are the same gods. Beside, was Mohammed Allah's son?

The rest of your statement I have a hard time following.

Have a nice day:>)

Bladerunner

 

[Mihail]

Originally posted by Bladerunner.

Ben Laden was a murderer just like Mohammed as any in history. If you want to call Allah a god, so be it, but he believes in killing or enslaving non-believers. Don't think they are the same gods. Beside, was Mohammed Allah's son?

I know that my English is not very good but I think (until now) that is understandable. Seems to not be so, let me try again

Ben Laden was a murderer

Agree, but not this is the subject here. The subject is the sens of believer / non-believers words.
So, Ben Laden IS a murderer and he is also a very true believer as I already said.

If you want to call Allah a god...

I "am" orthodox as well as I am Romanian. "They" say me that but no one asked me if I like this, if I agree this etc.
So, in my language the god is named Dumnezeu. I don't know very well in English. I see that you use God, so I assume that this is the name of your god.
But you (the English) use also "gods" for the dead gods of ancient Greek. So, I am confused: why Allah isn't a god, but Zeus, Apollo, Poseidon, Ares, Afrodita, Dyonissos (he's my favorite ) are ?

Don't think they are the same gods

I think that is no god, nowhere, but I don't care that you think that there are 2 gods. As well as I don't care that others think that it is a god for anything (water, air, light, dark and so on).

Beside, was Mohammed Allah's son?

Again, I can't answer to this. While no evidence (I refer to DNA ) I can't answer to this.
I don't know if they have their "Mary", I don't know Allah's preferences (now I speak about women), I don't know if a Moslem women, with a husband, can have a relation with some one else (even with her God) and to not be killed with rocks after that, I don't know a lot of things about the Islam religion.

 

[Galaxiom]

I don't know if [Muslims] have their "Mary".

Yes, they call her Miriam but it would probably depend on what faction you happened to be born into.