A textbook definition of cowardice (2 Viewers)

[Rich]

Wasn't it JFK who deployed nuclear warheads in the UK which resulted in the Cuban Missile Crisis?

No, he deployed them in Turkey close to the Soviet border

 

[dan-cat]

No it was an American war, we weren't so paranoid over socialism and justice

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=8797

"I cannot emphasize, sitting in this position where I sit, how important this bill is. It provides military assistance to countries which are on the rim of the Communist world and under direct attack"

Vietnam not a part of the Cold war, that's a new one.

 

[dan-cat]

No, he deployed them in Turkey close to the Soviet border

...and Italy and the UK. He basically made your country a nuclear bullseye.

 

[Rich]

...and Italy and the UK. He basically made your country a nuclear bullseye.

"Fueled by concerns that the U.S. had more nuclear missiles than the Soviet arsenal, and, more importantly, that some of the American missiles were based a mere 150 miles from its boarders, in Turkey, the Soviet leadership grew increasingly desperate to somehow tip the balance of power in its favor."

There was never any mention of the Soviets at the time viewing your missiles on our soil as a menace and in any case we also had our own nuclear bombs since the early 50's

 

[Brianwarnock]

Been away to eat so will now try yo answer the points raised in response to my earlier post.

Vietnam going communist was not seen by the majority in th UK as effecting us to any degree , infact many of my contemoraries considered the Vietnam war to be a continuation of the Vietnamese war of Independence equating the Viet Cong to the Viet Minh, infact some cheered the US's bloody nose and thought it was their own fault for not supporting the French, but then post war American policy was to aid the fall of the European Empires.( I'm not going to enter a debate here about the rights and wrongs of that, I just state it as a percieved fact)

I support Rich's statements on the Cuban missile crises, as an aside we had a personal involvement in that (that might be a little OTT) as my eldest brother was in America training on Thor missile's electronics for the RAF , the first we knew was when his picture appeared in the local paper under the headline
"Local hero with his finger on the Nuclear trigger" , Spin has been around for a long time.

Brian

 

[GMLWORLDCHAMP!]

It's nothing like our system we're a democracy

Her Majesty The Queen (god bless her) does pay income tax and has an income of her own, she recieves money from the government to enable her to carry out her duties. Unlike American politicians she's beyond corruption

He was supposed to be gone yonks ago

Absolutely, God bless her; she's the last of the classic period world rulers but the fact that she has no real say in your government and hasn't since her reign began (her mother had some real say and I applaud her reign as the last TRUE world ruler).

Still, the fact that she is paid very well to "carry out her duties" of simply being your Queen, is bogus!

"...she's beyond corruption" ...She's human. Especially in her reign and her Mother's if she didn't have direct knowledge of nefarious activities, I guarantee you that she was well aware they were happening...COME ON...you think she paid for Palace restorations with all her own money!#??$!

What do you think of either Charles or William as they ascend to the throne to become England's first King in over 100 years? And what do you think they might change or actually do for you and your countryman?

Always remember, as far as I'm concerned, when these folks dissappoint you with their actions, you are welcome to cross the pond and join the millions upon millions that beat you to it over the last 600+ years!

 

[GMLWORLDCHAMP!]

1) your maths is out by 1% obviously a product of US education, add on 1% and nobody will notice?

2) I never mentioned athletics: You forget already...put the scotch down!#??$! - "Originally Posted by ColinEssex: I think GML's username explains it quite well - "world champ"? that'll be the same world as in "world series" no doubt Col" - So, I responded in kind...

But now that you have mentioned athletics, I agree that the performance enhancing drugs US athletes use must be fairly costly. Justin Gatlin obviously feels he is inferior without the aid of testosterone - now he has 8 years to think about it ref

Nice that the "genuine fans" support people who cheat and lie. A bit like supporting your government leaders.

I'm unclear what you mean by "whats your point" I pointed out that your username indicated you are a "world champ" - I merely questioned which world you are referring to, the US world (of 2 countries USA and Canada) or the real world which contains reality

Col

That extra 1%...I knew you wouldn't understand that. I could have guessed a response was coming so I'll just say, that is the extra mental effort offered in some and sorely lacking in others...

Please, no geography lessons from you or Rich...you obviously live in your OWN WORLD, as we've all seen and read about!?#?$#!#

I'm absolutely with the opinion that drug enhanced athletes are losers and I don't support them at all, many here do not but you seem insistent on ignoring that very "human" nature thing because if you think some of your soccer players, weight lifters, swimmers, hell, probably even fencers aren't on something, you need to check a lot closer...look for hoof prints when they move!?#?!$!

 

[GMLWORLDCHAMP!]

Try to find a history book that focuses on something other than the USA - read about the invasions from the Gauls, the Vikings, the Normans, the Spanish, the Romans etc etc, then you can discuss it properly.

Col

I would talk about those other groups but you can't even comprehend what happened and what easily could have happened in WWII without our help so why would I dig further into the past knowing full well, that would get turned around into, unbelieveably, the U.S.A.'s fault as well!?#?$!

If you ever get the chance, I'm sure you can find plenty of texts that feature, now prepare yourself...US, FRENCH, ENGLISH, SPANISH, RUSSIAN and many others joined TOGETHER to defeat Nazi Germany or are your books "slightly" different?

Dates on which states joined the Allies:

Following the German invasion of Poland
Poland: 1939, 1 September
United Kingdom: 1939, 3 September
France: 1939, 3 September
Australia: 1939, 3 September
New Zealand: 1939, 3 September
Nepal: 1939, 4 September
Newfoundland: 1939, 4 September
Tonga: 1939, 4 September
South Africa: 1939, 6 September
Canada: 1939, 10 September

After the end of the Phony War
Norway: 1940, 9 April
Belgium: 1940, 10 May
Luxembourg: 1940, 10 May
Netherlands: 1940, 10 May
Free France: 1940, 18 June
Greece: 1940, 28 October
Kingdom of Yugoslavia: 1941, 6 April
Soviet Union: 1941, 22 June
Tannu Tuva: 1941, 25 June

After the attack on Pearl Harbor
Panama: 1941, 7 December
Philippines: 1941, 7 December
Costa Rica: 1941, 8 December
Dominican Republic: 1941, 8 December
El Salvador: 1941, 8 December
Haiti: 1941, 8 December
Honduras: 1941, 8 December
Nicaragua: 1941, 8 December
United States of America: 1941, 8 December
Republic of China: 1941, 9 December
Guatemala: 1941, 9 December
Cuba: 1941, 9 December
Provisional Government of the Republic of Korea (Govt. in exile): 1941, 9 December
Czechoslovakia (Govt. in exile) : 1941, 16 December
Mexico: 1942, 22 May
Brazil: 1942, 22 August
Ethiopia: 1942, 14 December
Iraq: 1943, 17 January
Bolivia: 1943, 7 April
Iran: 1943, 9 September
Italy: 1943, 13 October (formerly a member of the Axis)
Colombia: 1943, 26 November
Liberia: 1944, 27 January

After D-Day
Romania: 1944, 25 August (formerly a member of the Axis)
Bulgaria: 1944, 8 September (formerly a member of the Axis)
Finland September 19, 1944 (formerly a member of the Axis)
San Marino: 1944, 21 September
Albania: 1944, 26 October
Hungary: 1945, 20 January (formerly a member of the Axis)
Bahawalpur: 1945, 2 February
Ecuador: 1945, 2 February
Paraguay: 1945, 7 February
Peru: 1945, 12 February
Uruguay: 1945, 15 February
Venezuela: 1945, 15 February
Turkey: 1945, 23 February
Lebanon: 1945, 27 February
Saudi Arabia: 1945 March
Argentina: 1945, 27 March
Chile: 1945, 11 April
People's Republic of Mongolia: 1945, 9 August

I know it completely maddens you and some others here to see people get along but here's the ultimate proof that they did so even people like you could have the privilege of being irreverent, today!

Here's the Atlantic Charter link...study yourself because this laid the groundwork for a lot of what we have to do today; a promise over the years to two great men; President Franklin D. Roosevelt and BPM Sir Winston Churchill!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Charter

 

[Rich]

Absolutely, God bless her; she's the last of the classic period world rulers but the fact that she has no real say in your government and hasn't since her reign began (her mother had some real say and I applaud her reign as the last TRUE world ruler).

Her mother had no more say than her, in fact she had less, she wasn't Queen

Still, the fact that she is paid very well to "carry out her duties" of simply being your Queen, is bogus!

No more bogus than Bush claiming to be the leader of the "free world"

"...she's beyond corruption" ...She's human. Especially in her reign and her Mother's if she didn't have direct knowledge of nefarious activities, I guarantee you that she was well aware they were happening...COME ON...

Which activities are you on about?

you think she paid for Palace restorations with all her own money!#??$!

No, why would she, does Bush pay for repairs to the white house?

What do you think of either Charles or William as they ascend to the throne to become England's first King in over 100 years? And what do you think they might change or actually do for you and your countryman?

They will continue where their mothers left off, ie beyond reproach and not in the back pocket of industry

Always remember, as far as I'm concerned, when these folks dissappoint you with their actions, you are welcome to cross the pond and join the millions upon millions that beat you to it over the last 600+ years!

We're not disappointed, still you've only two years left with the clown eh

 

[Rich]

I would talk about those other groups but you can't even comprehend what happened and what easily could have happened in WWII without our help

I note from the rest of your post that you turned up late, why was that?

 

[msp]

What do you think of either Charles or William as they ascend to the throne to become England's first King in over 100 years? And what do you think they might change or actually do for you and your countryman?

I very much doubt that the Queen will be around for another 46 years. The Queens father was King and he died in 1951.

 

[ColinEssex]

What do you think of either Charles or William as they ascend to the throne to become England's first King in over 100 years?

King Edward VII . . . . . . . . . .1901 - 1910
King George V . . . . . . . . . . . 1910 - 1936
King George VI . . . . . . . . . . .1936 - 1952

Suggest you read up on UK monarchy dates. unless of course you are displaying your complete inability to subtract two numbers correctly.

Always remember, as far as I'm concerned, when these folks dissappoint you with their actions, you are welcome to cross the pond and join the millions upon millions that beat you to it over the last 600+ years!

I have no idea what you're babbling on about.

Col

ps - I never mentioned athletics. I am still trying to assertain what you are "world champ" of - apart from posting unreferenced "facts" that is

 

[ColinEssex]

Absolutely, God bless her; she's the last of the classic period world rulers

What's your feelings towards all the other nations with a monarchy? The UK is not the only one. (I will post a list should you be unable to find one)

I get the impression that just because you live in a dictatorship, there is a little envy there?

Col

 

[Brianwarnock]

now prepare yourself...US, FRENCH, ENGLISH, SPANISH, RUSSIAN and many others joined TOGETHER to defeat Nazi Germany or are your books "slightly" different?

Dates on which states joined the Allies:

Following the German invasion of Poland
Poland: 1939, 1 September
United Kingdom: 1939, 3 September
France: 1939, 3 September
Australia: 1939, 3 September
New Zealand: 1939, 3 September
Nepal: 1939, 4 September
Newfoundland: 1939, 4 September
Tonga: 1939, 4 September
South Africa: 1939, 6 September
Canada: 1939, 10 September

After the end of the Phony War
Norway: 1940, 9 April
Belgium: 1940, 10 May
Luxembourg: 1940, 10 May
Netherlands: 1940, 10 May
Free France: 1940, 18 June
Greece: 1940, 28 October
Kingdom of Yugoslavia: 1941, 6 April
Soviet Union: 1941, 22 June
Tannu Tuva: 1941, 25 June

After the attack on Pearl Harbor
Panama: 1941, 7 December
Philippines: 1941, 7 December
Costa Rica: 1941, 8 December
Dominican Republic: 1941, 8 December
El Salvador: 1941, 8 December
Haiti: 1941, 8 December
Honduras: 1941, 8 December
Nicaragua: 1941, 8 December
United States of America: 1941, 8 December
Republic of China: 1941, 9 December
Guatemala: 1941, 9 December
Cuba: 1941, 9 December
Provisional Government of the Republic of Korea (Govt. in exile): 1941, 9 December
Czechoslovakia (Govt. in exile) : 1941, 16 December
Mexico: 1942, 22 May
Brazil: 1942, 22 August
Ethiopia: 1942, 14 December
Iraq: 1943, 17 January
Bolivia: 1943, 7 April
Iran: 1943, 9 September
Italy: 1943, 13 October (formerly a member of the Axis)
Colombia: 1943, 26 November
Liberia: 1944, 27 January

After D-Day
Romania: 1944, 25 August (formerly a member of the Axis)
Bulgaria: 1944, 8 September (formerly a member of the Axis)
Finland September 19, 1944 (formerly a member of the Axis)
San Marino: 1944, 21 September
Albania: 1944, 26 October
Hungary: 1945, 20 January (formerly a member of the Axis)
Bahawalpur: 1945, 2 February
Ecuador: 1945, 2 February
Paraguay: 1945, 7 February
Peru: 1945, 12 February
Uruguay: 1945, 15 February
Venezuela: 1945, 15 February
Turkey: 1945, 23 February
Lebanon: 1945, 27 February
Saudi Arabia: 1945 March
Argentina: 1945, 27 March
Chile: 1945, 11 April
People's Republic of Mongolia: 1945, 9 August

I know it completely maddens you and some others here to see people get along but here's the ultimate proof that they did so even people like you could have the privilege of being irreverent, today!

This post is the ultimate proof that arguing with GML is a waste of time, the man is as thick as 2 short planks, Where does it list Spain as joining the fight against the nazis, it is recognised as one of Franco's achievements in that he kept Spain out of WW2, after the AXIS powers had helped him to power.

Brian

 

[KenHigg]

.. the man is as thick as 2 short planks,

Brian

(Good 'un )

 

[dan-cat]

"Fueled by concerns that the U.S. had more nuclear missiles than the Soviet arsenal, and, more importantly, that some of the American missiles were based a mere 150 miles from its boarders, in Turkey, the Soviet leadership grew increasingly desperate to somehow tip the balance of power in its favor."

There was never any mention of the Soviets at the time viewing your missiles on our soil as a menace and in any case we also had our own nuclear bombs since the early 50's

I'll have to take your word for it as I wasn't alive at the time

but anyways, I'm not sure where that quote came from but the attempted arming of Cuba was, as your quote says, a part and parcel of the nuclear arms race. The United States HAD deployed nuclear arms in the UK, Italy and Turkey during JFK's presidency. There may have never been any mention of the US missiles being a 'menace' to the soviets but they were there - which means the UK WAS a part of the nuclear arms race.

Now Bri is saying that it wasn't perceived by the UK that it wasn't involved in the events I cite but in hindsight it actually was. UK RAF bases got used as stratagic military bases during JFK's presidency just as much as they do now. In fact even more so back then because of the 'mutually assured destruction' (MAD) factor.

 

[ColinEssex]

arguing with GML is a waste of time, the man is as thick as 2 short planks,

I think thats clear enough

Col

 

[Rich]

I'll have to take your word for it as I wasn't alive at the time

but anyways, I'm not sure where that quote came from but the attempted arming of Cuba was, as your quote says, a part and parcel of the nuclear arms race. The United States HAD deployed nuclear arms in the UK, Italy and Turkey during JFK's presidency. There may have never been any mention of the US missiles being a 'menace' to the soviets but they were there - which means the UK WAS a part of the nuclear arms race.

Now Bri is saying that it wasn't perceived by the UK that it wasn't involved in the events I cite but in hindsight it actually was. UK RAF bases got used as stratagic military bases during JFK's presidency just as much as they do now. In fact even more so back then because of the 'mutually assured destruction' (MAD) factor.

No, no, I keep telling you, we already had our own nuclear deterrent before Kennedy decided to butt his nose in, anyway it was just some old redundant airfields that we rented to you

 

[dan-cat]

No, no, I keep telling you, we already had our own nuclear deterrent before Kennedy decided to butt his nose in, anyway it was just some old redundant airfields that we rented to you

You don't think the deployment of American nuclear warheads by JFK in the UK had anything to do with the arms race of the cold war?

 

[dan-cat]

Here is an interesting article

with regard to the UK's perception of LBJ.

It actually seems to support the idea that LBJ isn't demonized because the UK declined hte US's invitations to war, unlike what occurs today. Could this be a valid answer to the discrepancy?