Are you an atheist? (1 Viewer)

[AnthonyGerrard]

The really really sad thing about Iran is that the CIA destroyed the democratically elected government at the behest of Winston Churchill (one of the greatest arsh0les of modern history) who objected to the Iranian government seizing British oil assets in Iran after decades of blatant theft of their resources.

How different would the Middle East have been without that disruption?

He did well with Gallipolli and the Gold Standard though?

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

Sorry for the misunderstanding. My post was intended for the generic YOU.

No worries.

 

[Galaxiom]

He did well with Gallipolli and the Gold Standard though?

I sense irony here.

For some bizarre reason Australia celebrates the futile massacre in the face of machine guns at Gallipoli as a national day of heroic action. Churchill's incompetence was the most spectacular aspect of the campaign.

What did he do with the Gold Standard?

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

I sense irony here.

For some bizarre reason Australia celebrates the futile massacre in the face of machine guns at Gallipoli as a national day of heroic action. Churchill's incompetence was the most spectacular aspect of the campaign.

What did he do with the Gold Standard?

Aye - Ive seen the gathering of a few thousand pissed up hoons on their travels every year - making the "pilgrimage".

Yes why Gallipolli wasnt the first or most deadly for Aussies was it?

Gold standard - I forget the details except he was chancellor at the time and it was another in his long line of **** ups.

 

[Dick7Access]

Irans trying its best with nuclear technology - keeps getting stopped from progressing by the US.

Clarification please, in your opinion, is it good thing, or a bad thing that US is trying to stop Iran’s nuclear technology?

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

Clarification please, in your opinion, is it good thing, or a bad thing that US is trying to stop Iran’s nuclear technology?

Well if its for energy purposes - I'd say bad.

If its for weapons - its a bit more complicated. Its then a case of do as i say and not as I do, which short or long term only feeds a sense of injustice, which is seemingly at he the heart of middle eastern problems already.

Though nuclear proliferation isnt something I would want either.

The nuclear powers should be looking at ridding the world of them completely - not just Iran. Singling out Islamic nations doesnt help.

Is Iran really after weapon tecnology anyhow - Well Iraqs WMD ididnt turn out to be much did they?

 

[Dick7Access]

Well if its for energy purposes - I'd say bad.

If its for weapons - its a bit more complicated. Its then a case of do as i say and not as I do, which short or long term only feeds a sense of injustice, which is seemingly at he the heart of middle eastern problems already.

Though nuclear proliferation isnt something I would want either.

The nuclear powers should be looking at ridding the world of them completely - not just Iran. Singling out Islamic nations doesnt help.

Is Iran really after weapon tecnology anyhow - Well Iraqs WMD ididnt turn out to be much did they?

Well spoken, but is there any doubt in your mind that if Iran gets a nuclear bomb they would attack Israel?

 

[Dick7Access]

The really really sad thing about Iran is that the CIA destroyed the democratically elected government at the behest of Winston Churchill (one of the greatest arsh0les of modern history) who objected to the Iranian government seizing British oil assets in Iran after decades of blatant theft of their resources.

How different would the Middle East have been without that disruption?

QUOTE]

Gal I am not disputing your above statement as I am not up on the subject but would like to be. I have goggled it but did not come up with much. If you know of a site please sent it to me.

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

Well spoken, but is there any doubt in your mind that if Iran gets a nuclear bomb they would attack Israel?

I have no doubt it would strengthen their bargaining position - just as it does the USA's or Isreals or ours.

I am not totally convinced of the threat of Iran (or rather that its anymore of a threat to a peaceful long term future - than actually is the status quo, or Israels position at the moment.) no - I have seen the "wiping Israel of the face of the map" is a bit of a deliberate misquote - ie it shouldne be an internationally recognised country - not we are going to nuke the place, when Palastine isnt yet recognised - I can see his point.

But no I dont trust anyone with nukes - but banning one whlst allowing another nation - just kicks the same problem down the road.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85jSgzs9-nU
This guy on Iranian TV and with Ahmadinejad shows us at least that what most of us think of as is - is actually just one interpretation. Where does that interpretation come from - and can it be trusted, thats the question.

I am open minded on it.

 

[Andrew Barker]

Here is a question: If everyone in the world was an atheist and could intelligently disprove the existence of God.....would that actually mean that God did not exist?
Does God only exist if we think he does? Or if we can prove he does?
If God is real......then no amount of thinking or arguing or proving can change it.
If God is real.....then i think this world needs his help. I know many will scorn this because there is so much crap happening and it seems God aint helping. But if you check out the the lives of folk who really believe in God (im not talking about folk who just do the religious thing), you will find that where there is faith, there is hope. Where there is hope there is peace. Where there is peace there is joy....and you get the picture. I was once an atheist. Now im a believer. I can tell you life is better, more enjoyable, less fearful, less aggresive, more fulfilling when you walk with the one who for some does not exist.

 

[Vassago]

I think the disconcerning thing for me is that religion tends to speak in absolutes which are constantly broken or rewritten. The best thing about an atheist proving that a god does not exist is that science allows things to change without absolutes. What we "know" about science today doesn't necessarily prove to be 100% fact. I like the quote from Men In Black.

"1,500 years ago, everybody knew that the Earth was the center of the universe. 500 years ago, everybody knew that the Earth was flat. And 15 minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow."

That's science to me. No absolutes. Yeah, we "know" things, but what we know can and will change.

 

[Vassago]

Of course, 500 years ago people didn't actually believe the Earth was flat. That's a misunderstanding, but still.

 

[Andrew Barker]

Hi Vassago....thanks for the reply...so are we in agreement that the conclusions of the scientific /educated world change from one generation to the next? (i think thats what you are saying).
That is one good reason to question how anyone can disprove the existence of God, and somehow think that they arrived at the "truth".
Yes i agree that religion (or shall we call it "man trying to reach/interpret God") is disconcerting, and produces all kinds of weird and unhelpful beliefs.
What about "God reaching out to man". I cant think of one time when in my personal experience, having faith in a good God was ever unhelpful, confusing, disconcerting, etc. Its only ever done me a power of good.....

 

[ColinEssex]

. I cant think of one time when in my personal experience, having faith in a good God was ever unhelpful, confusing, disconcerting, etc. Its only ever done me a power of good.....

In what way has it done you "a power of good"?

How do you differentiate between what you make happen yourself, or what happens due to coincidence or what god does for you.


Col

 

[Brianwarnock]

That is one good reason to question how anyone can disprove the existence of God, and somehow think that they arrived at the "truth".
.

I am not aware of anybody trying to disprove the existence of God, if you had read the thread you would know that this has been debated before, it is proof of his existence that is required.
Please don't just quote some unproven text as proof.

Believe can indeed give strength and comfort but does that does not mean that it is correct.

Brian

 

[Andrew Barker]

Colin thanks for reading my post - to answer your first question - In what way has it done you "a power of good"? The number one thing God has done for me is basically cure me of selfishness and pride. Life aint anymore about how to please number 1. It might be a cliche - but it really is more fun to give than to receive.

your second question: "How do you differentiate between what you make happen yourself, or what happens due to coincidence or what god does for you."
Try as i might, in the 23 years before i put my faith in God, i never once could make myself be unselfish or compassionate, especially where family were concerned. i would try, but i usually had alterior motives........
Then i put my faith in God, and bingo, wow its a coincidence. suddenly i am able to be forgiving and patient and unselfish.....or maybe God is real.You choose!

 

[Andrew Barker]

Brian - yes you are right - it is proof of his existence that is required.
Sometimes proof is subtle. Every child has a mother. Every creation has a creator. So i guess the proof is this: Take the time to stand and stare at this planet, this universe, this human race. Was it created purposely or is it a random result of a massive explosion? Over to you...

 

[Brianwarnock]

Andrew - that's a wishy washy answer. If this is a purposeful design by a loving all powerful being then it aint working.

Brian

 

[Andrew Barker]

Brian - ok, would you allow me to tell a story: Imagine that you are a top watchmaker in the swiss mountains. You give your prize watch to your son, who goes through a horrific marriage, a divorce and somehow the watch ends up in the ex-wife's care. Care is a generous word here...she has no regard for its upkeep. It gathers rust. It aint working...... Is that any reflection on the love, care and skill of the maker?
So agreed for many this world aint working. Doesnt mean if you take your rusty life back to the creator he cant fix it.

 

[Brianwarnock]

Yep he sure fixed for those folks in Moore just like he does for the people suffering due to lack of rain in Africa, still I suppose it's our adult we should have learnt to control the weather.

Been through all of this nonsense before so won't continue again.

Brian