Are you an atheist?

[ColinEssex]

Yep he sure fixed for those folks in Moore just like he does for the people suffering due to lack of rain in Africa, still I suppose it's our adult we should have learnt to control the weather.

Been through all of this nonsense before so won't continue again.

Brian

I agree Bri, I remember discussing this back in about 2001 and on and off ever since.

Those who are for,will argue, as will those against, there is no outcome either way.

But just to help it on, religion is a well thought out non provable scam and many people are coining in millions on the back of people's insecurities.

Col

 

[Andrew Barker]

Brian - if God is a puppeteer and this world is his stage, then agreed, he is failing. Then he is responsible for every diaster, every crime, everything. Ultimate evil being i guess. Unless.....
He is not in control. Just as a father does not control his 50 yr old son...Just as the Queen does not control the plans of a criminal......but stands for and offers justice when it is needed. Do you think we need to continue?

 

[Andrew Barker]

Colin - you are right that comment will help it on! Well I am sure there are "scam" preachers out there. What about "scam" doctors, pirate software, counterfeit money, fraudulent bankers, fake rolex watches etc etc. Do they invalidate the real originals?

 

[Brianwarnock]

I never thought that as a father I would be placed in the same position as your God in respect to how I treated my children, but then I would not let them starve or suffer in any way if I could help. I would send the rain to Africa.

Brian

 

[Andrew Barker]

Brian - i admire your tenacity, and i think the duration and response of this thread proves one thing - we are a whole lot more concerned about the possibility of the existence of God than the average atheist would let on........

 

[Galaxiom]

Hi Vassago....thanks for the reply...so are we in agreement that the conclusions of the scientific /educated world change from one generation to the next? (i think thats what you are saying).

Science rarely reverses much about knowledge but instead refines it with greater detail.

Einstein didn't replace Newton but demonstrated that Newton's Laws were a specific case of a more general law where the effects of relative velocity were trivial. Gravity was shown to be a special type of acceleration.

Indeed General Relativity could even be considered as nothing more than Newton's Laws of motion applied to four dimensional SpaceTime.

Likewise, Quantum Mechanics didn't invalidate Atomic Theory but revealed the deep underlying causes of the interactions between matter and energy.

General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics describe the Universe as we know it from the largest to the smallest scales respectively. The accuracy of their predictions is beyond reproach with vast numbers of observations and experiments confirming the nature of nature itself. You are sitting in front of a machine that is testimony to our understanding of reality.

These theories hold and correctly model the Universe we live in from the point where the first pixel of pure energy burst forth. The pixel size of the Universe is 10 ^ -35 metres across.

This also equates to a time tick of about 10 ^ -44 seconds.

We do understand the operation of the Universe on incredibly small scales and find no need for anything other than physics and logic to explain everything that we see in the Universe today.

Science doesn't leave much for a God to have done but create that first pixel. Thousands of scientists are working on observations and new hypotheses to extend our understanding to outside our Universe and determine what physical cause there could be for that first pixel.

The need for and influence of a God has moved further back throughout history as scientists explained the truth about reality. The causes revealed have never yet turned out to be the will of a supernatural being so I would lay odds that the Big Bang won't turn out to be down to a god.

 

[Galaxiom]

But if you check out the the lives of folk who really believe in God (im not talking about folk who just do the religious thing), you will find that where there is faith, there is hope. Where there is hope there is peace. Where there is peace there is joy....and you get the picture.

The religious would have us believe that "true" hope, peace and joy are only available to those who choose to "walk with the Lord".

Yet me, my family and my friends have a wonderful time without the slightest need for an imaginary friend to comfort us. The believers condescendingly counter with the notion that we don't really know "proper" joy or hope.

I won't go into a discussion about peace as the reality of the relationship between religion and peace is quite evident in the news every night.

I was once an atheist. Now im a believer. I can tell you life is better, more enjoyable, less fearful, less aggresive, more fulfilling when you walk with the one who for some does not exist.

If it makes your life better then great. However science suggests that you are experiencing a placebo effect. It is a well known fact in medical research that the placebo is a surprisingly effective medicine.

Feeling better because you believe in God does not prove that your God exists.

 

[Galaxiom]

So agreed for many this world aint working. Doesnt mean if you take your rusty life back to the creator he cant fix it.

This is exactly the kind of condescending assumption I spoke of above.

Like many evangelists Andrew loves to put everything into the second person. He speaks of his own failings then applies them to the reader with "your rusty life", implying that all who are not walking with the Lord are lost and hopeless.

They apply the same outlook to the entire planet. The world is so bad that it can only be fixed intervention of their God. They relish the anything that appears to be getting worse to them as a sign of the imminent arrival of the Lord to fix it all.

People have been waiting for that arrival since Jesus told His followers that some of those alive at the time would see His return. A hundred generations later and the faithful are still convinced it is going to happen really soon.

Meanwhile they nonchalantly go about their lives carefree because none of this reality matters because they are headed for an eternal life of bliss.

What is truly bizarre is the notion that the coming of the Lord will be accompanied by Armageddon where all but the true believers of their "one true faith" will be annihilated by their loving God.

And you wonder why millions of atheists are standing up to say enough is enough?

 

[Andrew Barker]

Dear Galaxiom - love the name - i appreciate you can argue the hairs off my head when it comes to science...however i am not a scientist so i guess you win. Sorry mate that you think im condescending, but im not implying anything about your or other lives, just telling my life story. btw i dont think there should be a battle between atheist and christians. But im sure theres lots of people on each side who take their argument too seriously and cause the hackles to go up. Atheism is great...it encourages people to investigate and question the religious status quo, and pursue the depths of humanity and the universe. And when you get to the final pixel you might find the answer......

 

[ColinEssex]

Colin - you are right that comment will help it on! Well I am sure there are "scam" preachers out there. What about "scam" doctors, pirate software, counterfeit money, fraudulent bankers, fake rolex watches etc etc. Do they invalidate the real originals?

Your examples can all be proven to be scams and mostly illegal.

The scam of religion is that it cannot be proven to be wrong or right, it is the perfect scam. Look at US TV, full of "evangelists", how much are they making out of suckering the viewers into sending money.

Billy Graham was the original and made millions through being a smooth talker.

But, is it wrong? If it helps people survive and they are happy to send a stranger $20 then why not? People are gullible, especially Americans.


Col

 

[rzw0wr]

I did not read all of the posts.
What you put down in writing and how you voted is none of my business or of my concern.
If you believe good. We all have/need something to get us through the day and nights.
If you don't that is good also. The fact whether you believe or not should not be the defining element of yourself or your life. The defining element should be how you react with others. The type of person you are. A God or lack of a God does not make you a good or bad person. That is your choice.
Me? If you would like to know. Agnostic. I neither believe or disbelieve. Not a lot of facts either way. Stories, but not facts.
If there is a God, he/she will be plenty angry by the way the people the represent him and his name act and treat others.
I am not against religion or their God. I am upset by the people that practice said religion.
Dale

 

[Galaxiom]

Try as i might, in the 23 years before i put my faith in God, i never once could make myself be unselfish or compassionate, especially where family were concerned. i would try, but i usually had alterior motives........
Then i put my faith in God, and bingo, wow its a coincidence. suddenly i am able to be forgiving and patient and unselfish.....or maybe God is real.You choose!

Nothing really changed though.

You still have an ulterior motive. You know that if you believe and are a forgiving, patient and unselfish person in this life then God will eventually reward you with eternal life instead of the eternal suffering that He has planned for those who don't fall on their knees in worship of Him.

 

[Galaxiom]

My observations about those who take up religion later in life have invariably revealed that they never really were atheists.

They had been well primed for religion in infancy and their atheism was nothing more than a minor deviation from what had been instilled in them, often in subtle ways that they can't even recognise.

 

[recyan]

Or is it a something similar to people taking to alcohol, drugs, etc
when faced with situations that they are not able to handle
such as
work stress, family stress, lack of or insufficient income, unable to handle or tolerate intelligent wom a/e n, unable to handle the questioning of females about male supremacy or dominance, questions arising in mind about existence, etc

 

[Galaxiom]

Stress is often a trigger but there is typically an underlying propensity to take a particular path.

For some they may have indulged in alcohol or drugs recreationally at times in their lives without any problems but faced with a crisis they become dependent.

Similarly with religion. Few will head into religion when faced with a crisis if they have not already been primed at some time in their life.

Drugs and religion both offer an escape from reality. If one does not see reality as something one needs to escape then it isn't a problem.

One of the insidious things about religion is they keep telling everyone that reality is not only bad but that it is unimportant while they obsess with the promise of eternal post-mortem bliss.

 

[Brianwarnock]

Similarly with religion. Few will head into religion when faced with a crisis if they have not already been primed at some time in their life.

I suspect that in this country at least all of my generation will not only have had religious instruction at school but will in all probability have been sent to Sunday School as a youngster, this early brainwashing is hard to ignore and does lead to questioning things at certain times. I know after the loss of my wife I started questioning my views, however the religious community could only offer the usual platitudes, infact I found some of the comments hurtful if not downright offensive.

When asked about their view of this promised paradise non could elaborate.
Anybody care to say what form it takes? Don't really see much joy in spending eternity sitting on a cloud playing a harp.

Brian

 

[Brianwarnock]

I think I actually preferred Aziz's honest Kuran rants than Andrew's condescension.

Brian

 

[Galaxiom]

Don't really see much joy in spending eternity sitting on a cloud playing a harp.

I'd give that a go. The cloud would be nice and soft to sit on and I like making music. Don't suppose they would let me swap the harp for a guitar? I am a singer but I always wish I could play guitar too.

The other side is pretty scary though.

"Welcome to Heaven, here is your harp."
"Welcome to Hell, here is your piano accordion"

Could you imagine any better image of acoustic hell?.

I wonder if you get lessons in how to play?

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

Don't really see much joy in spending eternity sitting on a cloud playing a harp.

Brian

It takes an eternity just to tune the bloody thing!

 

[Galaxiom]

I know after the loss of my wife I started questioning my views

The church's obsession with the posthumous paradise completely distracts them from the celebration of the life of a person who has passed away.

My eclectic philosophy includes on concept I have heard attributed to a native American culture.

A person undergoes three deaths. The first is when their body ceases to function. The second is when nobody alive has ever met them. The third is when they are never spoken of again.

This notion encourages one to consider the departed as still being part of the world in some ways. It subtly implores us to honour their memory.

I am sure that you frequently think of moments in your life together and could smile in the knowledge that your wife has not entirely passed away.