Are you an atheist?

[AnthonyGerrard]

Rubbish. What I posted is an accurate description of what is in the Bible.

The Hebrews slaughtered hundreds of thousands of people in the name of their god in what was in reality a land grab. They also collected the precious metals and jewels and put them in a box which they revered. Everything else was burnt.

Why don't you actually read the Bible?

Well you certainly try to align hitler as a catholic and not an atheist. And then talk of the irony of jewish persecution. Is religion "fundamentally at the core of what has been wrong with humanity for millennia" You present this idea in a discussion on wars and their causes.

So I thought you were saying religion was the cause of most wars - not to far off Mels quote really. Maybe I misunderstood you.

What was the collusion between hitler and the catholic church - you talked of at the start of your post?

I was taught as a kid that lots of the bible is not to be taken literally, and not encouraged to read it, since I don't have anything to do with organised religion - now would be a funny time to start reading it.

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

No religious person has ever attempted to explain it to me when I asked.



So you are religious and believe the Bible is the word of God, yet you have not even read it? That is fairly typical of the religious. Atheists generally know more about the Bible than the believers.



The book is supposed to be the word of God. Either it is all the word of god or it isn't at all. Hence it is not reasonable for the faithful to cherry pick.

The atheist hypothesis the Bible is nothing more than writing of stories made up by ancient ignorant misogynists. To prove that hypothesis we need only point to examples that demonstrate that hypothesis.

Regardless of the "good" parts the bad stuff is there and cherry picking to prove it is perfectly acceptable.

The atheist hypothesis can be proven by a single example.

Well you have made a incorrect assumption that I believe the bible to be the word of God?.
It entirely reasonable to cherry pick, ie there's some very good parables - aren't there?

 

[Bladerunner]

@Bladerunner
Here you have a bit of info about Orthodox Church.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East–West_Schism

A Romanian expression say : This is the same Mary (=Maria in Romanian language) with other hat.
(Maria is a very common name for women in Romania - is not about Jesus mother).

This is the main story of Christianity and the main story that make me an atheist

Eternal life for me ? What about my friends, what about my wife, my children, my parents ? How I can live in eternity if one or more or all of this very important persons for me will not be near me ?! The God's love - I am very sure - is NOT enough for me.
Yes. I make my choice: I prefer an eternal death.

Thank you for the info on the Orthodox church and I am sorry you feel that way but it is your choice.

Have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

 

[Galaxiom]

Having read only 10 or 12 sentences from this thread, I have to constantly be amused at the level of religious non belief exhibited by atheist.

It would be religious non-belief if it was held in conflict with the evidence. In fact there is no evidence whatsoever for the existence of a god and much against it.

And for their total misunderstanding of the level of proof that is absent form the so called sciences. Science measures things. It has no explanation of the core cause, only the effect.

Now you are really displaying your ignorance. Science does have explanations for the core causes. At the deepest level this is embodied in the theories of General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics which together explain the entire history of the Universe from the first pixel of its formation.

But you guys keep on believing, God does not need your belief to exist,

No he doesn't need our belief but he certainly need yours.

and oh by the way, I am actually educated,

You probably only read twelve lines out of the science books too.

as was Einstein, who like wise believed in a supreme being.

The religious love to say this but it simply isn't true. But the religious will go on making the claim because they never let the truth get in the way of their beliefs.

Some quotes from Einstein:

"I came—though the child of entirely irreligious (Jewish) parents—to a deep religiousness, which, however, reached an abrupt end at the age of twelve. Through the reading of popular scientific books I soon reached the conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could not be true. The consequence was a positively fanatic orgy of freethinking coupled with the impression that youth is intentionally being deceived by the state through lies; it was a crushing impression. "

"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."

 

[Galaxiom]

Well you have made a incorrect assumption that I believe the bible to be the word of God?.
It entirely reasonable to cherry pick, ie there's some very good parables - aren't there?

Perhaps so. But the Bible then should be considered as nothing more important than any old book of fiction from antiquity.

What I object to is the idea that it aught to be considered as a justification for the religious dictating arbitrary notions of morality and expecting them to be incorporated into law.

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

Perhaps so. But the Bible then should be considered as nothing more important than any old book of fiction from antiquity.

What I object to is the idea that it aught to be considered as a justification for the religious dictating arbitrary notions of morality and expecting them to be incorporated into law.

I am not fundamentally for the bible or fundamentally against it. I think that s a very common view even of those who are actively religious.

 

[Bladerunner]

The bold part is my favorite.
Not (or not only) because the special sexy/porno story ("1001 Nights" is a book for younger compared with the Bible). I love this part because:
1) Lot has drink until he wasn't able to remember that the single women around are his daughters;
2) Lot has drink enough to not recognise his daughters;
3) Lot's daughters was virgins.

In this condition, Lot was able to have sexual relation with his daughters :banghead: the emoticon is for me) even to have children (WOW, the true believers seems to be also "true males").

What Glaxom tells you about Lot is not as it is written? Why don't you read Genesis yourself. Here let me give you the parts:

Genesis 19:1 ¶ And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;
2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.
3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.

.[Gen.19:4–9] , .[Gen.19:10–14], [Gen.19:15–17], [Gen.19:18–22],
Read each one of the above carefully and apart from one another.
The last part where Lot's wife becomes a pillar of salt.

Genesis 19:23 ¶ The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar.
24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.




I can find no mention of anyone raped to death.




Have a nice day :>)


Bladerunner



​

 

[Bladerunner]

I'm intrigued by this collusion, what was it and what were they colluding to acheive?

You're not far off a Mel Gibson esque - Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world - kind of sentiment in your full quote - just targeted to a broader church?

Possibly because the Jews (Israelites) are God's chosen People:

Have you ever wonder why it is paramount to kill all of them. If successful, would make their God (my God) weak, Make him untrustworthy or there is not God!

Do you ever wonder why the Israelites have never been defeated????????


Have a nice day:>)


Bladerunner

 

[Bladerunner]

Having read only 10 or 12 sentences from this thread, I have to constantly be amused at the level of religious non belief exhibited by atheist.

And for their total misunderstanding of the level of proof that is absent form the so called sciences. Science measures things. It has no explanation of the core cause, only the effect.

But you guys keep on believing, God does not need your belief to exist, and oh by the way, I am actually educated, as was Einstein, who like wise believed in a supreme being.

Thanks Thales750: thought I was the only alternative on this thread (except D7A) to the non-believers.

Have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

 

[Bladerunner]

It would be religious non-belief if it was held in conflict with the evidence. In fact there is no evidence whatsoever for the existence of a god and much against it.



Now you are really displaying your ignorance. Science does have explanations for the core causes. At the deepest level this is embodied in the theories of General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics which together explain the entire history of the Universe from the first pixel of its formation.



No he doesn't need our belief but he certainly need yours.



You probably only read twelve lines out of the science books too.



The religious love to say this but it simply isn't true. But the religious will go on making the claim because they never let the truth get in the way of their beliefs.

Some quotes from Einstein:

"I came—though the child of entirely irreligious (Jewish) parents—to a deep religiousness, which, however, reached an abrupt end at the age of twelve. Through the reading of popular scientific books I soon reached the conviction that much in the stories of the Bible could not be true. The consequence was a positively fanatic orgy of freethinking coupled with the impression that youth is intentionally being deceived by the state through lies; it was a crushing impression. "

"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."

And Atheism is an expression of human greatness?

Have a nice day :>)

Bladerunner

 

[Galaxiom]

And Atheism is an expression of human greatness?

Yes. An atheist society is free to make decisions on the basis of their merit having observed the science.

It means not having to deal with those who come to the negotiating table holding a rigid mindset established thousands of years ago by ignorant, arrogant misogynists who presumed their every thought was holy.

 

[Mihail]

What Glaxom tells you about Lot is not as it is written? Why don't you read Genesis yourself.

I do. Somewhere at 17 years old. But I remember pretty well, because, after I read once, I have tried to keep a track (using a pencil and paper - no computers at that time in Romania) between records (something like this: Genesis 19:23 say:.... but Genesis 20:54 say..... first record = not the second one ????). Hope you understand what I mean. Of course I fail because the enormous amount of situations like I described.
So, I do: I have read the Genesis myself.
And because is YOU who don't tell us the all story, let me fill (with my poorly English) the gaps in this (funny) story:

So, the Lord was informed (this sound like an ancient FBI ????) that in two towns (Sodom and Gomorrah) the people are very bad (the homosexuality being the main problem). But the Lord need to verify the information so He send 2 more undercover agents (2 angels) in Sodom. And He said: If you will find at least one believer I'll not punished this towns.

The two angels arrived in Sodom and they go to the Lot house (the faith).
Now, the club of homosexuals, somehow, was informed and they ask Lot to give they the two (very young and very beautiful) angels in order to have sexual relation with they.
Lot said "No". Is better to take my young, virgin, daughters for this task, but leave alone this 2 guys.
Of course, with no result.

The angels inform the Lord that the information was verified. But, because they know very well the Lord, they know that they can't believe in His word (see the bold text).
So they say to Lot:
Take your wife and your daughters and run to the mountains. But do not look backward !!!!

In time they run, Lot's wife (named Sara if I remember well) has looked backward (she was a woman, isn't it ? ) and, instantly, she become a stick of salt.

Sodom and Gomorrah was erased by Lord from the Earth.
Lot arrived in the mountains with his daughters and camp here.

After a wile one of the girl say to the other one:
We are here for a while and the single man around is our father.
So, it is a huge risk to never have kids. What can we do ?

And a smart idea raised:

The girls give drinks (a lot of drinks) to their father, until he was no more able to understand the real word and the first girl has sexual relation with him (after that she born a child).
Next day, the other girl do the same, and she born a child too.

Of course that in my native language I say this story much better
So, Bladerunner, I have read myself the Genesis, maybe before Galaxiom because I suspect that I am older than he is.

More, I have read also some books written by Erich von Däniken.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_von_Däniken
Note that he never sustain that his "theories" are "the truth". He just show us another possibility. (and make good money by selling the books)

In one of his books, von Däniken has write about this story and he said that the Lord has used an atomic bomb. He argue that Lot was send to the mountains because the natural protection that the walls from rock ensure.
But this is another story, my friend

All the best !

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

Yes. An atheist society is free to make decisions on the basis of their merit having observed the science.

It means not having to deal with those who come to the negotiating table holding a rigid mindset established thousands of years ago by ignorant, arrogant misogynists who presumed their every thought was holy.

Tell me more of the catholic collusion with hitler again? Lets see if your beliefs hold up to scrutiny?

Or is this just a personnel one way diatribe against religion generally.

 

[Rabbie]

Do you ever wonder why the Israelites have never been defeated????????



Bladerunner

And there I was thinking the bible told of them being taken in captivity to Babylon and the Romans conquering Palestine. Just shows you can't trust it's accuracy

 

[Rabbie]

"When did I realise I was God? Well, I was praying and I realised I was talking to myself" Peter O'Toole (1932- 2013)

 

[Mihail]

@AB
I think that a new thread under Watercooler forum with this subject (aliens - exist or not) will be fain.
Unfortunately I am not very sure on my English, so I can't start it.

 

[Dick7Access]

@AB
I think that a new thread under Watercooler forum with this subject (aliens - exist or not) will be fain.
Unfortunately I am not very sure on my English, so I can't start it.

Don't feel bad, I was born in (New England) and lived all my life in the USA and when I preach in the south they accuse me of speaking in tongues.

 

[Mihail]

Don't feel bad, I was born in (New England) and lived all my life in the USA and when I preach in the south they accuse me of speaking in tongues.

Lol ... what can I say ?!
Just that my English is, sometimes, funny even for me.
I'll quote myself:

Lot said "No". Is better to take my young, virgin, daughters for this task

but really I have no more words in my (English) vocabulary.

 

[Dick7Access]

Lol ... what can I say ?!
Just that my English is, sometimes, funny even for me.
I'll quote myself:

but really I have no more words in my (English) vocabulary.

When I went to Navy Boot Camp (1960) in Great Lakes, IL half our barracks was from Boston, MA area where I was from, and the other half was from Ohio and West Virginia. It was a week before we could understand each other.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Mihail, you got the essence of the story just fine. Don't worry about your English. We have many people here who grew up speaking English as their native tongue who cannot communicate very well with others. I believe someone once described British and American citizens as "people divided by a common language."

But this is about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. I saw a program on the Discovery Channel a couple of years ago that offered an interesting take on the subject. It seems that ancient Chaldean astronomers documented a fireball that streaked across the heavens at the right time for the destruction of those two cities. However, there was no crater. The program offered the idea that the fireball was a meteor that disintegrated in the air in a way that caused a massive air burst. Anyone caught in the cities would be destroyed by the shock wave. Do you recall that meteor that streaked across the skies of Russia recently? Its shock wave did a lot of damage yet left no crater. And of course, let's not forget Tunguska.

The show even discussed the "pillar of salt" by saying that if you were tardy in reaching shelter, you might be instantly dehydrated by the flash of light and heat caused by the air burst. Given the potassium and other inorganic chemicals in the human body, you might very well resemble a pillar of salt.

It would also not take very much to imagine that the primitive people who heard about the destruction of the cities would attribute the event to an angry God. So of course, we must ask which came first?

Did God get angry and send a meteor? Or did the meteor burst over the cities and the survivors then made up stories to explain it? (As an atheist, I believe the second option is correct.)