Are you an atheist? (2 Viewers)

[Call_Me_Sam]

You are implying that Mother Theresa would have done horrible things instead of good things with her life had she not believed in god. Is that truely what you believe? There are also many humanitarian efforts that are NOT driven by religion or belief in god. My point is that you don't need religion or belief in god to be a good person or to do good acts, and that the people who are out there saving the world would be doing that whether or not they believed in god.

F2I didn't say she'd be horrible, he suggested that she wouldn't have done such good work, people of good moral standing are more likely to do things unselfishly...i imagine if it wasn't for the media, we wouldn't know of her unless we visited the area she worked in..she was Britney or Madonna, seeking exposé

Ok hands up...i missed a good ..debate?? here..in fact missed it so much i couldn't be asked to read the lengthy posts...if you want to heard, keep it shorter..

fire2ice and Alisa..you two are cards....

i did try and steer this thread back to the point about atheism once, but hey? whatever...

why are either of you trying to prove or disprove God's existance, if something has the know how to create an entire universe then IT sure has the capablility to remain hidden from the science radar...

on the idea of proving disproving...my daughter asked why dogs cannot talk to us...my answer was that we just don't listen hard enough.. and that is the problems many people have. they listen to the religious leaders that ask for holy wars and suicide bombers.. yet you read their holy book there isn't a mention of strappling on the jacket and running onto a bus full of people.. what i recall is that God says that man should not judge, that He will punish those who go too far..thus it was angels that were sent.. in my spare time i'll go back and try and make sense of both of yours' posts... but as i made the point previously belief is so far removed from 'religion'...i believe therefore i can't unbelieve..so therefore i cannot be an atheist

Matt, did you still rue the day you posted to this thread and resurrected it..??

God knows?!

 

[Rich]

didn't say she'd be horrible, he suggested that she wouldn't have done such good work

where's the evidence to support that claim, or is based on the "Dogs" theorem?

people of good moral standing are more likely to do things unselfishly

Like Bush and Bliar you mean?Like those in frocks screwing up kids brains for the rest of their lives

 

[oumahexi]

you dnt just 'get' bulemia its a self induced eating disorder which progress's over time depending on the persons mental state.... just so you know.

Gee, thanks for the info, a day without learning is a day wasted

 

[Rich]

In the United States our soldiers do what they do in the service of a belief as well. In fact, any war, battle, conflict, or whatever is best served by people with beliefs. Otherwise, they would look for the first opportunity to escape. Beliefs are what drives all conflicts as those that lack conviction would seek to leave at the onset of any obstacle

Nonsense!, you don't have to believe in God to know the difference between right and wrong

 

[oumahexi]

People don't behave morally because they are afraid of being judged by god. People are moral creatures by nature, not because of their religion. You aren't going to find anyone who, if you take away their religion, is suddenly going to go rob a bank.

I'd like to think it might, because our namsy pamsy laws aren't doing much good anymore

If you live a good life, and when you die it turns out that god does exist, do you really think he is going to say, well, you did everything right, but you didn't believe in me, so you are going to hell? Really? I would classify a god who thought that belief in him was more important than doing good deeds as a narcissistic ass.

Yep, according to the old testament, He is just that! "I am a jealous God, thou shalt not worship any other God than me!" I always wondered, was that God's way of saying, "well, actually, I'm not the only God out there, but if you don't choose me I'll kick your ass!" ??

 

[Call_Me_Sam]

Like Bush and Bliar you mean?Like those in frocks screwing up kids brains for the rest of their lives

who mentioned either of them..i guess you did Rich..i don't agree with anything Blair did, and with Bush caused a war even the media couldn't handle..

 

[Call_Me_Sam]

Nonsense!, you don't have to believe in God to know the difference between right and wrong

oh so if we had a look in the Big Book of How to live your life the Rich way..then the would be a great plan to heal the world of all of its problems.. at least the bible gives a damn good list of 10 sensible ways in which to lead your life.. trouble is I guess the church got it in print first...

without values you have no basis to know the difference between right and wrong, unless of course you agree that you do know the difference but claim you thought of the divide all by yourself...

 

[Rich]

without values you have no basis to know the difference between right and wrong, unless of course you agree that you do know the difference but claim you thought of the divide all by yourself...

My parents taught me the difference, not some 2,000 year old book of stories

 

[Call_Me_Sam]

My parents taught me the difference, not some 2,000 year old book of stories

a) where did they learn it?

b) stories that are as much relevant today as they were 2000 years ago, how many hollywood blockbusters have you watched that are based on parables??? more than you probably imagine or acknowledge

 

[Rich]

who mentioned either of them..i guess you did Rich..i don't agree with anything Blair did, and with Bush caused a war even the media couldn't handle..

They both claim to be men of good moral standing

 

[Rich]

a) where did they learn it?

Their experiences of the horrors of WW2, which for many others in Europe altered their belief that there was an almighty god looking after them

 

[Pauldohert]

They both claim to be men of good moral standing

Your not daft enough to beleive a word from either of them are you?

 

[Call_Me_Sam]

They both claim to be men of good moral standing

..ah which is it...you said they were of good moral standing..now you're saying they both claim to be..

neither are really in my book..may have been years ago when they were younger..but politics screws most people up...look at how our MP's get given allowances for second homes etc..for travel which they pocket as they fly cheap...

 

[Rich]

Your not daft enough to beleive a word from either of them are you?

I don't believe the word of any politician, likewise men in frocks

 

[Call_Me_Sam]

I don't believe the word of any politician, likewise men in frocks

do you hang around tv's that much then ..not to believe a word they say...

 

[Rich]

do you hang around tv's that much then ..not to believe a word they say...

I gather my information from many sources, not just ONE.....

 

[Call_Me_Sam]

I gather my information from many sources, not just ONE.....

you hang around at more than one Blue oyster bar as well then..?

 

[oumahexi]

I don't remember directly pointing at you and saying: "Heretic!"

You use the word like a "bad" word. LOL, my Dad called me that as a kid, it only works with Christians, I think.

How do you actually go about and scientifically prove His existence?

I have an idea, let's have a "pray off" believers against non believers, see who wins! I vote the non-beleivers pray for the sun to come up tomorrow, and the believers for the end of the world !

This leads me to your statement that "evil in the world has been perpetrated by people who 'believe' in the name of whichever god it is that they 'believe' in. This is not God's will, it is man. In addition, acts of great evil are perpetrated in the name of many things, not just religion.

But mostly it's about religion right? Because at the end of the day, all monolythic religions believe in one God, and if that's the case, and there is only one, then they are all believing in the same person, so it has to be down to religion, not God.

It is typically power that drives this evil, not religion.

Ah, you learn something new every day. I thought it was power plays of religious factions that cause evil in the world.

However, I believe in God...not religion. I think that churches are misguided and have truly lost their way.

Here here!

Once Hopefully people are behaving morally to win the love and praise of God as opposed to avoiding His wrath.

or to feel good in themselves???

Religious people do tend to behave better than those that hold no belief.

Erm, I'm not really too clued up on this religious stuff, but, was Charles Manson not a religious man? And, ehm, what happened at Whako (or is it Wacko?) ?

To me, we’re both right. I’m right because I live my life as I believe and you are for the same reason. I’m just gonna laugh really hard if I’m on the inside and you are looking through the window when all things are said and done. If I’m wrong, well, my body will fertilize the earth equally well as yours

or, is it not possible that you are both right? As you say, we just don't know, so who knows, maybe when you die, what happens to the soul is what ever you believed would happen to it ... So if you believe you're going to heaven, you go, if you believe you're going to hell, ta ta, and if you believe in reincarnation, so mote it be.

 

[Rich]

you hang around at more than one Blue oyster bar as well then..?

You assigned your own definition to the term, not me

 

[Call_Me_Sam]

You assigned your own definition to the term, not me

but then you tend to sit on the fence and make fun of others comments

so thought i'd enter the fray...and hey you mentioned more than one source...but then conversely too your parents ideaology of good morals..so you may be something you claim not to be..

..and you failed to mention where they learnt their standard..