Attack on Israel (1 Viewer)

[Edgar_]

Takes a few seconds to google news from Gaza/West Bank/Palestine BEFORE the conflict, @Pat Hartman. Here's a tutorial so you can check your facts without falling in the algorithm trap (that tip goes for free, you might be a victim of it)
1. Open a private browsing window from your favorite browser
2. Go to Google
3. In the search bar, enter the name of some location and a topic, how about this? palestine water supply
4. Below the search bar, fine tune your results by choosing "Tools"
5. In the displayed tools, drop down the "Any time" menu and choose "Custom range"
6. In the input boxes, enter from 2021 to 2022, or some different year, if you want.
7. Choose "News"

These results came first for me:

You might get a different set of results, so it'd be good if you can tell us what you find. Please let us know, after reading a few articles, if you still think the population of Palestine was having a great time thinking about virgins and stuff. I mean, I don't know if the Palestinian women also think about virgins after death, or if the kids do, maybe? I don't know. They might have other incentives to attack Israeli people? who knows, everyone should die, as far as I read from you.

 

[Pat Hartman]

You posted pictures rather than links. Please note the sources. I'm guessing that if you read other stories from the same day from the Israeli press or perhaps even all the way to the last sentence of these, you'll see that Hamas was bombing Israel specifically to kill UNARMED CIVILIANS and the Israelis drew a line. Israel would never just cut off the water for no reason because of the same reverence for life that prompts them to warn civilians when they are going to bomb an area so the civilians can evacuate. Don't ever forget that Hamas hides its military and armaments inside civilian homes, schools, and hospitals to force Israel to destroy civilian property if they retaliate. There are no actual military targets for a reason.

Hamas CHOOSES to be dependent on Israel for power and water because the tactic ramps up the hatred in the Palestinian exiles. It makes them feel like victims and you believe them. Hamas could choose to spend its income on civil engineering projects but no, they choose to perpetuate the hatred and just keep bombing UNARMED CIVILIANS because they are Jews and all Jews must die as they teach their children. If you have 4 Jews and kill 3, how many Jews are left? That is one sick culture.

Israel does not initiate attacks but they do respond with vengeance.

 

[Pat Hartman]

The Israeli mission should be to eradicate Hamas.

I can't disagree with that. Enough is enough. but short of turning Gaza to glass, how does this end and what happens to the people trapped by their hatred? Maybe they reap what they sow.

 

[ebs17]

eradicate Hamas

The leadership, which is also lining its pockets with the suffering of its own citizens, is based in Qatar and Turkey.
So it's not that easy.

 

[Pat Hartman]

PS, Egypt also blocades Gaza because they don't want Hamas in Egypt any more than the Israelis want them in Israel. But, we never hear that part of the story do we?

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Egypt relented (or so it was announced on a news show) in that they will allow Gaza refugees to cross the border. I have to wonder if their prior reluctance was for reasons similar to our problems on our own southern border?

 

[Edgar_]

You posted pictures rather than links. Please note the sources. I'm guessing that if you read other stories from the same day from the Israeli press or perhaps even all the way to the last sentence of these, you'll see that Hamas was bombing Israel specifically to kill UNARMED CIVILIANS and the Israelis drew a line.

I wrote a tutorial on how to get those results, the picture conveniently align with my arguments, and those results were the first ones. I even used a VPN from the USA, east side, and Google is also from the USA, those search results are what Google would show to someone there, to avoid polluting the algorithm with results for my country. Maybe I should have also changed the language too, but the methodology would be the same, no need to guess, you can look it up too and see what a search engine from your country, like Google, would consider relevant for you.

Israel would never just cut off the water for no reason because of the same reverence for life that prompts them to warn civilians when they are going to bomb an area so the civilians can evacuate.

Their actions included cutting off water supply in times of war and limit it in times of peace.

Don't ever forget that Hamas hides its military and armaments inside civilian homes, schools, and hospitals to force Israel to destroy civilian property if they retaliate. There are no actual military targets for a reason.

What would you suggest they should do?

Hamas CHOOSES to be dependent on Israel for power and water because the tactic ramps up the hatred in the Palestinian exiles. It makes them feel like victims and you believe them.

Didn't you say a few posts before that whoever wins gets to keep the territory? therefore, its control as well? Yet, you chose to use the verb "choose".

Hamas could choose to spend its income on civil engineering projects

Why would you spend any money on infrastructure that will be destroyed out or suspicion that you have armament there? Or perhaps Israel does not need to suspect because they already know where they hide the armament? if so, would Israel not also know when they will attack? and therefore have a justification to retaliate? See how this keeps pointing a finger at Israel? or do you CHOOSE to not see? not-see, that almost sounds like Nazi, funny huh.

but no, they choose to perpetuate the hatred and just keep bombing UNARMED CIVILIANS because they are Jews and all Jews must die as they teach their children.

Just because they're jews... OK.

If you have 4 Jews and kill 3, how many Jews are left? That is one sick culture.

If you had one Palestinian and 3 problems, how many Palestinian deaths would it take to solve all 3 problems?

Israel does not initiate attacks but they do respond with vengeance.

Well, you seem to be sure they do not initiate attacks. OK.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

(In the context of Hamas hiding their weapons of war in civilian buildings)

What would you suggest they should do?

If the goal is to protect and help the Palestinian citizens of Gaza, DON'T put weapons of war where they would INVITE retaliation with a very high probability of collateral damage, deaths, and injuries. But obviously, to Hamas, it apparently doesn't matter. Protecting the residents of Gaza cannot be their goal. Therefore, all I can see is one of two reasons why they do what they do with their weapons.

Possible reason #1: Hamas leaders are TOO ABYSMALLY STUPID to recognize the consequence of their actions. (Doesn't speak well for Hamas intellect.) If you put weapons at location X, you have to anticipate that the Israeli forces will TARGET location X. Don't you think it would be a good idea to keep innocent people away from location X? Is that SO very hard to understand? And if location X is important - like a hospital - don't you think it might be necessary to keep that running, therefore DON'T make it a target of war?

Possible reason #2: Hamas leaders actually INTEND to invite retaliation in civilian areas in an attempt to inflame emotions, with the expressed purpose of sacrificing their own people to that end. They are attempting to arouse sympathy for people who CHOSE violent leadership with sacrificial intentions. (Doesn't speak well for Hamas ethics or for the intellect of the Gaza voters.)

You tell me which one, Edgar, OR you can fill in the blanks for reason #3. But any reason you give is ALSO fair game for critical analysis.

(In the context of Hamas killing unarmed civilians who happen to be Jews)

Just because they're jews... OK.

I don't know if you realize how that came out. If there was a nuance of emotion there, it didn't come through. But sadly, taken at face value, it is pretty close to the truth. Hamas has REPEATEDLY stated that they want to eliminate Jews from the face of the Earth. Just because they are Jews who do not follow the prophet or Allah. You CANNOT credibly deny that Hamas has made such statements. So what are we to think, other than Hamas is trying to do exactly what they said? In which case, what is Israel to do if they want to survive? Run from yet another pogrom? Not a chance in Hell.

For the Hamas members who die as martyrs in this campaign, the 72 virgins waiting for them are all morbidly obese, have bad breath due to rotten teeth, have terrible body odor due to poor sanitary habits, and ALL of them are dominatrices.

 

[AccessBlaster]

Hamas has a charter, created in 1988. Within the preamble of their charter they call for the destruction of Israel.

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."

 

[Edgar_]

@The_Doc_Man Honestly, I didn't expect to see such enthusiasm towards the impending extinction of Gaza, but I'm glad this is one of the few communities where that is the case. I can anticipate the reason for that too, it helps confirm how vulnerable to propaganda a portion of the internet community is.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Oddly enough, Edgar, some of us see YOUR posts as having been influenced by propaganda as well.

 

[Edgar_]

Oddly enough, Edgar, some of us see YOUR posts as having been influenced by propaganda as well.

Do indicate which posts.

 

[Jon]

Hamas has a charter, created in 1988. Within the preamble of their charter they call for the destruction of Israel.

I read it is in the constitution, something for which the Palestinians democratically elected. Surely the Palestinians who voted for this are the mafia bosses who put a hit on Israelis?

Imagine this hypothetical to illustrate a point: A group of people elected a party who's policy was to gas 6 million Jews. Is this group not collectively responsible for their deaths? I think so.

 

[Steve R.]

Oddly enough, Edgar, some of us see YOUR posts as having been influenced by propaganda as well.

This goes beyond propaganda. The posts of @Edgar_ reek of relative morality. The killing of over 1300+ Jewish people through a barbaric sneak attack is somehow "justified", but the anticipated retaliation of the Jewish nation for Hamas's attempted genocide is twisted into an uncivilized immoral overreaction. Hamas initiated the genocidal attack and immoral action. Furthermore, as @AccessBlaster wrote: "Hamas has a charter, created in 1988. Within the preamble of their charter they call for the destruction of Israel.". Hamas is the one who can't claim the moral high ground. They openly proclaim genocide against the Jews. Israel is the victim and has the moral right to retaliate (that should not be questioned).

 

[ebs17]

Israel is the victim and has the moral right to retaliate (that should not be questioned

But an important question is: How far can retaliation go?

- Two thirds to three quarters of Gaza's population are refugees who lived primarily in Jaffa and the surrounding area before the Palestine War (1947–1949).
- Hamas is not only politically and religiously extreme. They also built hospitals and schools in Gaza and took financial care of the poor and needy (when others did little or nothing) and thus won the sympathy of the people and were elected because of this.
- About half of the population is under 19 years old and only knows the state of being locked up and influenced by Hamas.

Where can we draw the line between the guilty and the victim? How many guilty people can you kill? How much innocent damage is acceptable as collateral damage?
Given their own history and the Shoah, how far can and may jews go to permanently end their own threat?

 

[Steve R.]

But an important question is: How far can retaliation go?

- Two thirds to three quarters of Gaza's population are refugees who lived primarily in Jaffa and the surrounding area before the Palestine War (1947–1949).
- Hamas is not only politically and religiously extreme. They also built hospitals and schools in Gaza and took financial care of the poor and needy (when others did little or nothing) and thus won the sympathy of the people and were elected because of this.
- About half of the population is under 19 years old and only knows the state of being locked up and influenced by Hamas.

Where can we draw the line between the guilty and the victim? How many guilty people can you kill? How much innocent damage is acceptable as collateral damage?
Given their own history and the Shoah, how far can and may jews go to permanently end their own threat?

The gloves for Israel are off. Hamas started it, now they should pay the price. You should be directing your inquiring of "how far" to Hamas.
Once again you insist that Israel restrain itself, but make no similar demands that Hamas restrain itself. Israel cannot defend itself if it has its "hands tied". The Arab states, who scream about this humanitarian disaster, could offer to disarm Hamas and imprison those responsible for attacking Israel. When are the Arab states going to assume responsibility for preventing attacks on Israel?

 

[ebs17]

Once again you insist that Israel to restrain itself,

No, I didn't do that. Do we agree that Israel has the superior military? Do we agree that Israel can quickly cause tens of thousands of deaths with rigorous use of the military?

One of the problems is public perception. There were around 1,200 dead Jews in two days, but now there can be hundreds of dead Palestinians every day for weeks and months? Because Hamas uses its own people as human shields.

 

[Steve R.]

But an important question is: How far can retaliation go?

You asked. I responded with

The gloves for Israel are off

Israel can go as far as it wants.

Do we agree that Israel has the superior military?

Israel has a superior military, but it needs to be allowed to use it without restraint.

One of the problems is public perception.

Yes, that is the problem. The Arab community instead of condemning Hamas is supporting Hamas. When will you be pointing out that Arab community, by failing to condemn and failing to take action against Hamas, is supporting Jewish genocide?
Stop second guessing Israeli actions, Hamas started it. Israil, no matter what the cost to its enemies, has a right to defend itself.

 

[Pat Hartman]

What would you suggest they should do?

I don't know, roll over and wait to be killed I guess. Peace doesn't work when the other guy will accept no alternative that doesn't end with all of you being dead. When a guy with a gun comes into your yard and shoots the children playing there, would you run away?

Why would you spend any money on infrastructure that will be destroyed out or suspicion that you have armament there?

Maybe they should stop shooting missiles into Israel targeted to kill UNARMED CIVILIANS. They don't target military installations. They target apartment buildings and hospitals and schools.

Didn't you say a few posts before that whoever wins gets to keep the territory? therefore, its control as well? Yet, you chose to use the verb "choose".

I don't make the rules. Do you suppose Russia will give back any of the territory they occupy in the Ukraine? The Gaza strip was part of Egypt prior to one of the wars that Israel won but didn't start. The Israelis gave it to the Palestinians in ~ 2006 and look what they did with ii.

But an important question is: How far can retaliation go?

As far as it takes to survive. Hamas has made this a fight to the death. You figure it out.

Israel has a superior military, but it needs to be allowed to use it without restraint.

Says who?

 

[Steve R.]

Says who?

Israel makes that decision. You wrote:

Peace doesn't work when the other guy will accept no alternative that doesn't end you all of you being dead.

The clear implication, you do what you have to do to prevent yourself from being killed.