Attack on Israel

[Steve R.]

Evidently, the anticipated walk-back of Biden's so-called "iron clad" commitment to Israel is begging to emerge. That this would happen was blatantly obvious following October 7th since the Obama administration is continuing with Obama's anti-Israeli and pro-Iranian policies. Furthermore, as indicated in some of the prior posts, the Biden administration is aggrandizing Islamophobia as a concern to de-emphasize the anti-antisemitism currently sweeping the world. We can't forget that over 1,400 people were killed by fanatical Muslim terrorists. That is not Islamophobia.

US President Joe Biden calls for 'pause' in Israel-Gaza conflict

He was responding to a heckler's demand for a ceasefire in a war which has claimed thousands of lives.

www.bbc.com

The president was making a campaign speech in Minneapolis when a heckler urged him to call for a ceasefire.
"I think we need a pause," he replied, saying that it would allow for hostages to get out.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Some footage newly released by the IDF discusses and documents some of the Hamas atrocities.

This for the folks who don't believe that Hamas perpetrated atrocities.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Look, he represents love, life and peace. All my arguments have lost their strength after this. I extend my apologies to all of the religious fanatics in this thread, the Jews were defending themselves after all.

Your words ring hollow. Sarcasm does not become you. And don't you DARE call ME a religious fanatic. I'm an atheist just in case you needed a proper label for my personal beliefs. Atheists don't go out and slaughter people of different religious beliefs. Or at least I have never heard of them doing so.

I don't doubt that the people in Gaza were frustrated. I don't doubt that they felt oppressed. But what defines any of us is simple: What do we choose to do under duress? That is how we determine character. We have now seen the character of Hamas.

 

[Edgar_]

don't you DARE call ME a religious fanatic

I know you're not religious.

Go into Telegram or 4chan, plenty of Hamas footage so you can keep hating on that figure that I keep questioning about its origin and how it entered Israel so easy but you people are blinded. I'm not going to try to convince you, you can keep calling this thing defense from the Oct/7 attack, I call it a war crime, the rest of the world as well, not even the people of Israel like what's happening, but hey, you can believe whatever you want.

 

[Pat Hartman]

I keep questioning about its origin

You are questioning the origin of the footage? Do you think the Israelis fabricated it? If you want to question something, you might want to question how those "moral" social media platforms that allowed such awful footage to be uploaded actually make decisions on content. Apparently, they approve of atrocities committed by Hamas. Those people aren't blocked or shadowbanned. I guess outright, cold blooded murder isn't "hate" speech. There are a lot of Democrats out there who are defending the attack on Oct 7 that really need to realign their moral compass.

 

[Edgar_]

You are questioning the origin of the footage?

No

Do you think the Israelis fabricated it?

Not the footage, the conflict itself. Evidence points in that direction. If you want to know why, you can read other messages by me.

There are a lot of Democrats out there

I have no idea what you mean by this, your country has only one party: $$$
You might want to change the way you view the world, the left vs right argument is vanishing and becoming another set of beasts called nationalists vs globalists.

you might want to question how those "moral" social media platforms that allowed such awful footage to be uploaded actually make decisions on content

It's widely available, I mentioned 2 sources in the post you are quoting, you can't censor something that people should see

who are defending the attack on Oct 7

Nobody is defending the assassination of Israeli civilians, you might be confused, people are questioning how that attack came to be, it's an entirely different thing

 

[ebs17]

It's not just the October 7th attack. Since then, more rockets have been fired at Israel and it hasn't stopped yet.
What is the ultimate proposal to end this current war if the causes have not changed?

 

[adhoustonj]

 

[Jon]

What is the ultimate proposal to end this current war if the causes have not changed?

Eliminate the cause. Won't be long now.

 

[ebs17]

I recently saw a report from the West Bank that was made well before the recent events.
This showed that Palestinians and Israeli settlers live next to each other but do not speak to each other. Even employed service personnel are not spoken to.
It was reported about a small initiative where a few settlers and Palestinians, normal people, meet regularly and talk to each other and share their points of view and talk about their experiences and their lives. In their conversations with each other, they notice how similar they are and that they have essentially become friends.
The big problem: They are seen by their own people as apostates, as traitors to their own cause, and are treated that way. There is a deep divide between people because they can't talk to each other, they just throw their prejudices and hatred at each other.

 

[Jon]

@ebs17 Indeed it is a religious war.

 

[raziel3]

For a forum where the members are conditioned to be bound by logic and reason this topic is sure getting heated.

Interpret these as you see fit.

I'm NOT choosing sides, just trying to find out the truth.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

but hey, you can believe whatever you want.

With no disrespect intended, we can say the same about you. You see it your way, we see it our way. But you are the one calling us "blinded" and to our viewpoint, the same can be said about you. So please understand, each of us comes to the table with different life experiences, different understandings, different (and for EACH of us, you and I included, probably imperfect) thought processes. Yet we have what we have. It's all that we have at the moment and that manifold of viewpoints probably changes over time.

The "Ghassan Kanafani" interview posted earlier (post #308) is from 1970 and it appears that nothing has changed in over 50 years. FIFTY!!!!! The Muslim world does not want to even bother to speak to the Israelis in search of peace. All they want is eradication of their religious enemy who won't bow down in submission to Allah. Which, to me, is the ultimate irony of bowing down to a non-existent being. But that is, of course, MY viewpoint. We are facing fanaticism over an imaginary root cause.

Do you know the meaning of futility? It is doing the same thing over and over under the same conditions and hoping for a different result. Like, for example, the Israelis trying cease-fires and other peace initiatives after each conflict.

List of wars involving Israel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I counted 17 major conflicts in 75 years. This doesn't begin to list all of the "rockets fired into Israeli territory" and "IED or suicide bomber" incidents that didn't escalate into a full-blown shooting-and-shelling war. Is it any wonder that Israel is trying something different this time? Not waving about an olive branch, but deciding to eliminate their enemy by using the enemy's same weapon - the terror of annihilation - the same exact goal of Hamas against Israel. What goes around comes around.

 

[Steve R.]

For a forum where the members are conditioned to be bound by logic and reason this topic is sure getting heated. View attachment 110743

View attachment 110744

Interpret these as you see fit.

I'm NOT choosing sides, just trying to find out the truth.

Palestine is a geographic area. As such, the word "Palestine" should never be interpreted to justify that those currently asserting to be of Palestinian ethnicity today had a unilateral claim on that land. That is a modern invention. The Jewish people, are one of many tribes that were indigenous to the area (for over 5,000 years) known as Palestine on various maps. Some maps don't show Palestine, depends on the context. The Jewish population, as an indigenous culture, retains a right to live in the area now know as Israel.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kingdoms_of_Israel_and_Judah_map_830.svg)

 

[Jon]

Wasn't the agrea originally called Judaea, and was renamed later on?

 

[Steve R.]

Wasn't the agrea originally called Judaea, and was renamed later on?

The Kingdom of Judea. Over the years kingdoms came and went. Also there were periods of extensive tribal migrations.
Consequently period maps can be considered highly fluid over time as well as the actual border (which has to be more or less assumed.)

 

[Pat Hartman]

It's widely available, I mentioned 2 sources in the post you are quoting, you can't censor something that people should see

Unless it disagrees with the liberal view. This is not a disease of the US, it is a disease we caught from Europe. Even in the UK you can be arrested for quietly praying in front of an abortion clinic. In the US you can riot and loot and attack police officers and burn down stores and occupy the Capitol building but only if you are rioting for the "correct" cause and you can also be arrested and persecuted for quietly praying in front of an abortion clinic. That's because the left has "morals" and "standards". I'm not sure what they are but they tell us that all the time.

Nobody is defending the assassination of Israeli civilians, you might be confused, people are questioning how that attack came to be, it's an entirely different thing

YOU are defending them by saying their evil attack was justified. There is no way what the Palestinian pigs did was justified. There is no way that the scared little boy girls of Hamas who hide behind women's skirts and masks have the moral high ground.

They are seen by their own people as apostates

The "they" in this case are the Palestinians, not the Jews. You keep forgetting that the Palestinians teach their children how to count by using dead Jews. It is the Koran that tells its followers to kill the unbelievers. The Torah does not teach Jews or Christians to kill unbelievers. The Jews are doing the best they can to root out the pigs of Hamas without killing "innocent" civilians. Every child born in Gaza has been raised to be a terrorist. Why do you think that no Arab nation will give them sanctuary? There is no possibility of peace with someone whose only objective is to see you dead. And there is no justification for the Oct 7 terrorist attack no matter how you try to frame the argument. Terrorism is not war. It is terrorism and totally unjustified since it targets civilians rather than the military. Israel is not targeting civilians. the scared Girley boys of Hamas hiding behind the skirts of women are holding their own people hostage.

 

[ebs17]

The "they" in this case are the Palestinians, not the Jews.

Are you telling me what I've seen and should believe?

It's worrying when you pour out your attitude and hate on everyone. A few years ago there was something called “whites only” in the USA. That was the dominant attitude and, so to speak, a “religion” (although everyone who is religious prays to the same God). Despite all the mutual hatred - things have improved?

 

[Pat Hartman]

I'm NOT choosing sides, just trying to find out the truth.

History didn't start at 1700 BC.

What is the ultimate proposal to end this current war if the causes have not changed?

Hamas is rooted out and eliminated OR they actually give up their quest to kill all the Jews. Israel is trying hard to not kill innocents. We can't say that about Hamas, can we?

Hamas is a terrorist organization intent on killing all the Jews. Israel is fighting for its life against a terrorist organization. Hamas is killing Jews, Israel is killing terrorists.

 

[AccessBlaster]

Israel is fighting for its life against a terrorist organization.

And yet they let their guard down during the anniversary Yom Kippur, this is puzzling. There is evidence Hamas was training months prior to this slaughter.

Broken record I know.