Can everyone agree at least on this perhaps?

[Isaac]

Georgia infant's decapitation at childbirth in hospital ruled a homicide

The death of a baby born decapitated during childbirth last year in a Georgia hospital has been determined to be a homicide, authorities said.

www.foxnews.com

That is some messed-up sh*t. !!

 

[Mike Krailo]

I'm too disturbed by this to think clearly.

 

[pbaldy]

I can't even bring myself to click on the link.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Fox News articles want me to turn off my Ad Blocker, which I won't do. However, I found another source and read the article. For those who don't want to click on the link, here's a thumbnail sketch.

The full-term fetus had a birth complication called "shoulder dystocia" which meant its shoulders could not get through the birth canal. The doctor pulled too hard to get it loose and broke its neck, which killed it. Since the parents wanted the birth to proceed, to them that fetus was a baby. They have had their expectations dashed. Their "bundle of joy" is no more. Yes, there is a tragedy here.

The only question is, what to call the incident? The legal complication is this: When does the law say that a fetus becomes a child? Clearly, before birth you have a fetus; after, you have a child. But when things are in-process, what is it? The reason for a question is because depending on state laws, that doctor could be charged with a feticide or a homicide. The headlines say "homicide" but they are reporters who pander to headline-hungry readers. Until the district attorney for that district files actual charges, we won't know.

Yes, Isaac, whichever charges get filed, I would agree that this is a tragedy.

 

[Mike Krailo]

Clearly, before birth you have a fetus; after, you have a child. But when things are in-process, what is it?

No, premature babies are born all the time and live to be full grown adults that live happy lives. Then when a baby in the womb has not be born yet is damaged in some way like someone punches the mother in the stomach, what do you do then when the baby dies? To that mother, it is her baby.

 

[Galaxiom]

Tragic for everyone.

Did the doctor anticipate the complication? Did they offer the option of a Caesarian delivery? Did the parents decide they still wanted a "natural" birth and decline?

Whatever happened, it certainly is not a homicide as that was not the intent of the doctor. Manslaughter perhaps. Calling it homicide displays the sick motivations of the authorities.

 

[moke123]

Yes, Isaac, whichever charges get filed, I would agree that this is a tragedy.

Gruesome story but I think the headline is misleading.

It appears this is solely a med-mal action. The homicide I think is referring to the cause of death namely one person killing another. Doesn't mean it's criminal. It's been 10 months. If charges were to be brought they probably would have by now. No mention of charges in the story.

I would think the autopsy dr. who posted the pictures online broke some law.

 

[moke123]

Whatever happened, it certainly is not a homicide as that was not the intent of the doctor.

My take is death certificate listed cause of death as homicide (used to have a buddy, NYC Homicide Det., who would throw a fit if you didn't pronounce it Home-icide)

Just checking the list of cause of death codes, that are used on death certificates, it lists "Complications of medical / surgical care" under the homicide category.

Edit: Another article says that the police are still investigating it.

Also found a medical journal which discusses the same thing. It said it is rare but not unheard of. Wont post a link as it contained some autopsy pics you would not want to see.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

No, premature babies are born all the time and live to be full grown adults that live happy lives. Then when a baby in the womb has not be born yet is damaged in some way like someone punches the mother in the stomach, what do you do then when the baby dies? To that mother, it is her baby.

Ask King Solomon. One of the cases before him was about that exact kind of question.

You have missed the point. OK, I get that the parents wanted a baby and didn't get one. For them, no matter how you call it, it was a tragic loss and I am deeply sorry for them. To re-answer Isaac's question, it was a horrific tragedy and a terrible event for them.

But technically, a fetus doesn't have the rights of a person until some specific and definable moment, event, ... something. For the sake of this discussion, I don't CARE whether the birth was full term, premature or long overdue. My question was about how the death would be legally classified if it happened during the birth event before the fetus had popped out all the way. At what point does the fetus become a child?

Remember that to some religions, mostly among the evangelical groups, it is "first breath" (derived from Solomon's "the breath is the life" pronouncement.) For Judaism, it is the severing of the umbilicus. Other religions pick other anchoring points for the beginnings of life as a person.

State laws also impinge in this discussion, but the U.S. Constitution only mentions "natural born citizens" which generally has been taken to mean "after the birth event." (OK, it also mentions "naturalized citizens" but that requires the putative citizen to be old enough to take an oath.)