Congress Declares War

[Thales750]

On the people of the United States.

When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another… That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government,… Thomas Jefferson

Before I’m done, I hope in the process of this discourse, many more will want to throw down the chains of this destructive government; ours has become.

If there was ever a moment in history when there is proof that the American Government is controlled by Big Businesses this is it. This should be the rallying cry, we have all been waiting for.

On September 29, 2010 the Senate of the United States voted down a bill to repeal the Offshoring Act. Bill number S:3816 was introduced into the Senate and voted down one day before they were scheduled to leave for the campaign trail. The most important bill thus far in the 21st century was struck down after only one week.

How long are we going to sit by and watch our futures end at the hand of a government that is determined to destroy the American way of life.

Over the course of this thread I hope to show how much “we the people” are being brain washed into acquiescence by the parties that lie, and the media that swears to it.

The Senate had a chance to bring hundreds of thousands of Jobs back to America, and they chose the interest of big Business over that of the people.

So all you republicans that voted for, no gay marriage, no abortion, no tree saving, or any other brain wash issue, I hope you are happy.

And for all you Democrats that sat by and watched as you let the special interest dominate government, I hope you are happy as well. It is time for us to put people in power that are beholden to us, and it’s time we stopped being brainwashed into arguing about the smoke, when the fire is threatening our very livelihood.

 

[the_net_2.0]

Thales...I am not generally a political person, but what I just read I interpreted as this: #!!!@#@!@@###**@@#*@!@#*@!!!!

Is that about right? I think you would benefit by accepting the fact that you can only control your little corner of the world. The government that is in power right is absolutely no different than any other corrupt presidency that has been in power since George Washington's. They all have agendas, and what's sad about this point in time is that government is exactly the same as the private sector. Do you know what fear is running through it? The fear that job security is very weak.

In this man's opinion, Congress people are acting just like the American public in that the TOP priority is to cut other people down to say their own jobs and make themselves look good. That is extremely disappointing, I agree, and the only thing more disappointing than that is listening to someone who thinks they can change it. Anyone who thinks that way is an absolute fool.

Government is government, is doesn't matter what country it is, the entity is always interested in power. That's its nature. The most productive thing to do is to leave the people that run those kind of institutions alone. Personally, I would never make it in the government because I can see through any sort of BS that people throw at me. And one of the scariest things I've ever seen is the dehumanized look I get from government employees when they know they're full of sh** and they know that I know it too.

But I'm smart about it...you don't see me go banging on doors down every street in my town claiming that the government is wrong and I'm right. The only thing I wish I could change in this world is the amount of stupidity. People will listen to anything, I don't care if it's government, if it's Jesus Christ that visited Earth, or if it's Kim Jong IL (whatever his name is) convincing people that blowing up south korean cities is a good idea...people are stupid. There's no way around it.

The smartest thing you can do is to worry about your little corner of the world.

 

[Thales750]

This Bill would have provided Tax incentives for companies to move employment back the US.

How can people engage in arguing about all of the unimportant things government does and ignore the real issues.

By the way, throughout American history our government has been reshaped many times by the will of the people.

Read the entire Declaration of Independence. Look up the progressive movement from a hundred years ago.

Of all of the industrialized world, the United States is losing its middle class the fastest. Arguing about gay marriage won’t have any effect. Trying to convince others that your God is in charge is merely a diversion. It is time for the voice of the people to take control.

The break down in financial demographics show the worst disparity between the haves and have nots, since we have been tracking it. Something like right before WWII, in the Great Depression.

The party system must end; Americans must make use of internet technology to unite against the richest .001% from becoming the Ruling Class we fought our War of Independence to escape from to start with.
After that the Robber Barons, were stripped of power by the unions and the Federal Government.

We can take control of the United States Government and we will not be required to march in protest, we will not bear arms, we will not threaten violence, we will start an internet movement that will hearken the lamentations of those that would deceive us. We will send them back to their law firms where they belong.

Of course they’ll do alright as lawyers, but that's another story altogether.

 

[Vassago]

I completely agree with you. The two party system is ruining our country, as we see the divide widen as time passes. For someone to join a political party, only to be controlled by the corporations that fund their respective parties, it's out of control. We don't own the government anymore, corporations do...

We need more independent and/or other party members in government. These two need to lose their majority before any real change will happen and Americans will once again actually have a vote in our government.

On a side note, I was happy to see my Governor elect to run for Senate independent. He was tired of being forced into voting how his party wanted him to, rather than what the people who put him in office and his own beliefs and morals told him were right. Kudos to him. I know who I will be voting for.

 

[Steve R.]

While I share the sentiment that the US is a country of by and for the corporations, the issue of offshore drilling is only one aspect of many incremental assaults on our march down the road to Orwell's 1984.

The Senate had a chance to bring hundreds of thousands of Jobs back to America, and they chose the interest of big Business over that of the people.

An unfortunate misconception in the US is the role of government "creating" jobs. Politicians just love to tout how they are promoting economic progress. Unfortunately, this involvement is really quite contrary to the principles of the free market. The Senate cannot bring jobs back to the US, the reason the jobs left is that US, for a variety of reasons, is simply too expensive. The solution to this problem is that the workers in countries such as China and India will need increase their standard of living to the point it matches the US.

Another subtlety to the issue of "jobs". The Obama administration is playing a game of Bread and Circuses to buy votes. Recently, a stimulus plan was put forward to assist business. The problem is that businesses can not expand if they do not have customers. Some economists have pointed out that our economic malaise is the lack of consumption. Furthermore, if a business uses the stimulus money to be more productive, such as buying a new piece of equipment, guess what - you now have another unemployed person! Productivity is great, more products at a cheaper price; but it also means less workers producing the product. In short, giving public tax money to business to foster economic growth is a fools game.

I will even offer a more radical position, that the US is moving towards a Soviet style planned economy. The difference, in the old USSR you had bureaucrats establishing production quotas; here the US Congress establishes production quotas through tax incentive gimmicks. Want more cars produced, cash for clunkers. Want housing, provide a tax deduction for buying a house. You could even say that the US is now a "welfare" society for the benefit of business.

More thoughts here: Demise of the Free-Market?

 

[the_net_2.0]

The two party system is ruining our country, as we see the divide widen as time passes. For someone to join a political party, only to be controlled by the corporations that fund their respective parties, it's out of control.

Vassago,

Are you aware of how politicians think? The more parties that become involved in the government, the more complicated it becomes, and thus the more arguing is done. I think we all know that the government's wheels turn extremely slowly and when people are starving on the street and need economic assistance, they don't turn any faster. It's a machine, not an emotionally-driven person.

There are two types of politicians...those that work for the public interest and those interested in power. Those 'power seekers' are going to do nothing but smile everytime a new party joins the fray because it slows down the process of getting anything productive done even more. And what that means is that they have more time to keep their jobs on a 'coasting' basis before they have to actually make points to prove they are still eligible to keep their seats.

So many people beat themselves up because they simply insist on going 'head to head' with the giant and they get knocked down every time. If you're going to take on a task, at least take on one that you can win!

 

[jamesmor]

There are two types of politicians...those that work for the public interest and those interested in power.

I think you've mis-spoken. It's, those who are interested in power and those who are better at lying about being interested in power.

EDIT:

You know who I'm going to vote for? the guy that says he's gonna screw me less, because they're all going to screw me one way or the other.

 

[the_net_2.0]

You know who I'm going to vote for? the guy that says he's gonna screw me less, because they're all going to screw me one way or the other.

I'm not sure how old you are james, but I would watch what you say if you're just starting your career.

I remember working with a recruiter a while back and the first thing she told me after finding my credentials was that she looked at how I behaved on fb, linkedin, and any other sites that brought up my full name.

 

[MarkK]

...and the only thing more disappointing than that is listening to someone who thinks they can change it. Anyone who thinks that way is an absolute fool.

Wow, what a powerful expression of weakness. I'm outraged too and shocked that more people aren't. I'll march with you Thales.
Consider showing up in DC on 10.30.10.
People shouldn't be afraid of governments, governments should be afraid of people.

 

[the_net_2.0]

Wow, what a powerful expression of weakness. I'm outraged too and shocked that more people aren't.

Well I'm not going to take potshots at you lagbolt as we obviously disagree on something here. And it's not a statement of weakness, it's a statement of intelligence coming from someone who has already learned the ropes.

But I will say that the majority of the people out there that insist on influencing government actions go about in an ignorant manner. If you're going up against a giant (especially a corrupt one) and you want to cut his legs off so he can't stand anymore, the one thing that you don't do is get in a pi**ing contest with him. That's like banging your head against the wall until you're dead. Some of the greatest leaders on Earth have known this.

You don't go toe-to-toe, you weave in and out to accomplish small things and eventually the giant falls down. The point of my initial response in this thread was to say that being outraged and simply yelling at the ruler doesn't get you anywhere.

He**, if you live in North Korea, doing that will get you shot!

 

[Thales750]

This is turning out to be a lively discussion. Thus far we are conversing and I believe taking a firm look at the situation. I need to work on a deadline, for tomorrow, for the next few hours.
Thank you all for participating in this discussion.
Joe

 

[MarkK]

we obviously disagree on something here.

To me there's constantly this tidy social rationale for not being angry, and you seem to promote it, and I call bullshit. You come across like you alone know the intelligent way and that great leaders of the world would agree with you. Nothing personal, but OMFG, enough.
In my bones I think the power lies with the people, and if there's going to be a pissing contest with a giant, then the giant is the people, particularly if they're outraged and particularly if they're American.
To me, now, there are not enough angry voices. The status quo has not been kind to the common man, so I assert that the common man should kick the status quo in the balls.
IMO

 

[Demetious]

In order for a business to profit from a tax incentive, the incentive has to be worth more than the cost. If it costs a company more to hire someone in the US, unfortunatly they are going to employ elsewhere. One thing to bring up when talking about how horrible is "Big Business", is to remember that every penny they have to spend more, is passed down to you. Basic economics tells us scarce resources with alternative uses creates an enviroment where we the people get goods as cheap as they come. If the resources a company uses cost more, we pay more. I agree it stinks that we have so many outsourced jobs but there are two choices, we start taking pay cuts, or we start paying more for goods.

 

[Steve R.]

In order for a business to profit from a tax incentive, the incentive has to be worth more than the cost.

Correct, that is the problem with the "incentives" proposed by the Obama administration.

But there is more serious concern with "incentives" that I need to reiterate. Incentives are a form of subsidy to the business. So they constitute a form of "welfare". If a business cannot compete: so sad too bad, out of business.

Also be aware that if an incentive is provided, someone has to pay for it through additional taxes. (The balanced budget is now a joke) So exactly how does it benefit the widget manufacturer to be given an incentive when the consumer buying his product has less money because he is taxed more to pay for the incentive?

 

[the_net_2.0]

Valid point Steve, just like many others.

That's one thing I dislike about politics...many people have valid points, but just like in a sporting event, someone has to win and someone has to lose.

The other thing that noone here has yet mentioned yet is the fact that Obama himself has always had serious tunnel vision. I can't believe that man! How can someone who grew up on the streets and literally made a name for himself be that stupid? Perhaps it's a classic example of how power skews your common sense mentality.

I do really like Obama because he's encouraging and inspirational, but it's so unfortunate that the man is like the majority of other people who can't see but 5 seconds into the future. The guy literally thinks that noone else is out there that has different opinions. What's so scary is that dictators are supposed to act like that, NOT presidents of democracies...

 

[Vassago]

Presidents are also supposed to do what's best for the country and what more truly represents what the country stands for, regardless of what the "moral majority" believe. Example, the moral majority may believe that gays should not be allowed to marry, but since the country has incentive geared towards marriage, they cannot restrict them from getting married without taking away principal rights provided for being an American citizen. This is one of the more common battles being fought right now in the US.

 

[the_net_2.0]

This is one of the more common battles being fought right now in the US.

And a seriously unproductive one at that. Have you ever seen the movie 'Philadelphia'? Tom Hanks gave an emotional interview about it a long time ago on the New York actor's studio show. That man is unbelievable...believes in God, loves just about anyone, etc...

People like that should be the president, no question.

 

[Adam Caramon]

Wow, where to start.

Thales, while your intentions may be good, to me, you're coming off as crazy. It sounds like you want to make changes. In order to do so, you have to be able to convince other people that your changes make sense. Rambling or getting incredibly angry is not the way to do it.

Vassago, one take on Crist is what you said, the other is he realized he was not going to be supported by the R's since the Tea party endorsed Rubio, and thus now he's running as an independent. No different than Murkowski in Alaska, or Specter from PA.

the_net_2.0, seriously? You're not going to take pot shots and than you say something like:

...it's a statement of intelligence coming from someone who has already learned the ropes.

I would also highly disagree with you that more political parties is better for the current political parties. That defies all logic. If there are only spoiler contenders, then that's one thing, but if there were 4 or 5 serious parties, they would have to compromise in order to get anything done. Look at Europe.

lagbolt, I wish I was able to go to DC on 10/30, would be very interesting to experience the sanity/fear marches.

Demetious, the reason that business' raise their prices, and pass those raises onto their customers, is that the leaders of those companies have decided they deserve x dollars. If they don't get x dollars, they will cut workers, slash benefits, and raise prices. If there is nothing that the customers can do about this, then we truly are servants of the corporations.

In general, if you really want to make change, you have to be willing to compromise. I saw an article the other day that was saying that most Independents are socially progressive and fiscally conservative. Basically, they don't care what someone does in their own bedroom, and they don't want their tax dollars being used irresponsibly.

Various groups have tried to capture these voters, but it seems to me you could form a viable political party on those exact tenets. You'd get some conservative voters when you try to crack down on welfare and cut government spending. And you'd get liberal voters when you push for equality for all, and no special considerations for religious organizations.

 

[Rabbie]

I would also highly disagree with you that more political parties is better for the current political parties. That defies all logic. If there are only spoiler contenders, then that's one thing, but if there were 4 or 5 serious parties, they would have to compromise in order to get anything done. Look at Europe.

Actually not as illogical as you make out. All modern political parties cover a range of different opinions so compromise does occur. The practicalities of the real world do mean that you can't just apply a theoretical solution to real problems and expect them to work. All governments have to adjust their policies in the light of events both at home and abroad.

 

[the_net_2.0]

Actually not as illogical as you make out. All modern political parties cover a range of different opinions so compromise does occur. The practicalities of the real world do mean that you can't just apply a theoretical solution to real problems and expect them to work. All governments have to adjust their policies in the light of events both at home and abroad.

A voice of experience...