God is Evil (1 Viewer)

[speakers_86]

The bible has lots of predictions, including all of Revelations. So surely we can assume that God has the power of foresight.

In Genesis, God put the tree in the Garden of Eden, and said Adam and Eve could not eat from it, even though he knew they would. When they did eat the fruit, God punished all them, and their descendent's with Original Sin. How is this not evil?

If you were around a child who loves to stick things in sockets, would you put a fork in the child's hand? No, and if you did you would be evil. I see no difference between the two ideas.

 

[ajetrumpet]

and I see no difference as to why your comparison makes any difference.

 

[wiklendt]

ah. you are assuming god exists and that creation is the true way life on earth began.

the second point has much evidence to the contrary, and the first has no evidence at all...

(edit: and actually, re-reading your comments, it looks as though you are presuming the bible was written by god, or at least by man who was instructed dictated by god (like a secretary, as the koran is fabled to have been written).... in fact, all evidence points to the bible being written several years (somtimes several hundred years) AFTER described events occured AND not written by or even via god at all - only by humans).

 

[John Big Booty]

And the fact that he allows all manner of nastiness to be perpetrated in his name.

quod erat demonstrandum deus est malum

 

[Mike375]

There are a couple of parts to this.

The first one is your question is a variation on fate. If we assume God is all knowing then He knows whether we are going to Hell or Heaven which in turn means we can't change the outcome. If we could change the outcome then that would mean God was not all knowing.

The second part is the issue of faith.

The third part is with our extreme limitations we can't possibly expect to understand God's reasons for doing things. A young child can't fathom why it gets punished or forced to go to school etc.

My personal view is that there is a being or beings that are notch or two above us but they are not all knowing and all powerful. If you believe in evolution then that belief must support the idea of life that is above and beyond us.

 

[Mike375]

And the fact that he allows all manner of nastiness to be perpetrated in his name.

quod erat demonstrandum deus est malum

Of course He might have kicked started the whole show and then let nature take its course.

 

[Rabbie]

If God existed then he would be evil. And if he exists where did he come from and who created him? (IMHO He was created by humans who wanted justification for what they were doing)

 

[scott-atkinson]

God is a falacy....

The concept of God, I believe, was created by a group of individuals with nothing better to do but thought it would be a laugh to create some fictional character and attribute events that at that time in our history could not be explained to this fictional character, this eventually gained followers and turned into a money spinning concept developed and led by the church...

Think of Dungeons & Dragons.... concept started by a few, now followed by many....

 

[Mike375]

If God existed then he would be evil. And if he exists where did he come from and who created him? (IMHO He was created by humans who wanted justification for what they were doing)

If it is assumed that God is all powerful etc then that does not apply.

God is to the laws of nature what nuclear power is to chemistry. Applying chemistry to nuclear energy does not compute and ditto for laws of nature and God.

There is simply no acceptable logical explanation that supports a belief in God and equally there is not one that supports a lack of belief in God.

But I think evolution supports a belief in a god or gods.

 

[speakers_86]

ah. you are assuming god exists and that creation is the true way life on earth began.

the second point has much evidence to the contrary, and the first has no evidence at all...

(edit: and actually, re-reading your comments, it looks as though you are presuming the bible was written by god, or at least by man who was instructed dictated by god (like a secretary, as the koran is fabled to have been written).... in fact, all evidence points to the bible being written several years (somtimes several hundred years) AFTER described events occured AND not written by or even via god at all - only by humans).

First, let me point out that this is not necessarily how I feel, it was just something I blurted out during a debate with my cousin.

Yes, wiklendt, you pretty much nailed it. The first post assumes that god is real, and that he at least played a role in the writting of the bibles. It was my understanding that most of the authors of the books claimed to have been visited by angels. So, it seems there is some divine intervention. (If thats not right, well, being athiest I dont really care.)

What the original post was getting at, is How can god set rules he knows will be broken, and then punish all of mankind forever?

 

[chergh]

What the original post was getting at, is How can god set rules he knows will be broken, and then punish all of mankind forever?

Well lets first consider exactly what Christianity is. I quite like this definition:

Christianity:

The belief that a cosmic Jewish zombie will make you immortal if you symbolically eat his flesh, drink his blood and telepathically communicate to him that you accept him as your master so that he may remove an ancient curse on your "soul" that was put there because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat an apple from a magic tree.

I think at this point everyone agree it's not even worth discussing God or religion any more.

To think if people had just ignored religion in the first place we could have been exploring space by now.

Yep thanks to Christian, Jews, Muslims etc. we're still stuck on this stupid little rock instead of exploring the stars. Thanks for that

 

[Alc]

If you believe in evolution then that belief must support the idea of life that is above and beyond us.

Why? Something or someone must be at the top of the evolutionary ladder, true. It could well be these beings you mentioned, but could it not just as easily be us? The fact that we may evolve even further doesn't mean that somebody else already has.

Also, the whole idea of God being evil or otherwise is a bit redundant, even if you suspend all sense of disbelief and assume that he exists. Isn't it one of the Christian safety nets when discussing this sort of thing to fall back on the assertion that no human can understand the way he works? Like all the best wizards and mythical creatures, he operates under a different set of rules to us mere mortals, so applying human descriptions like good and evil to his actions is meaningless. Come on, even the various laws of physics dont apply to him, why should abstract concepts like good and evil?

 

[Atomic Shrimp]

Yep thanks to Christian, Jews, Muslims etc. we're still stuck on this stupid little rock instead of exploring the stars. Thanks for that

We are exploring space, aren't we?

Do you mean interstellar travel? I think all that religion has done there is to delay the realisation that it's practically impossible.

 

[Atomic Shrimp]

Evolution doesn't have a ladder, outside of Hollywood, or the caricatures of evolution drawn by creationism.

 

[Alc]

Evolution doesn't have a ladder, outside of Hollywood, or the caricatures of evolution drawn by creationism.

You used the term 'above us' so it was easier to stick with the ladder idea.

 

[dan-cat]

If we assume God is all knowing then He knows whether we are going to Hell or Heaven which in turn means we can't change the outcome.

It means He can't change the outcome either otherwise His prior knowledge of the outcome would be false.

 

[speakers_86]

Chergh, your definition was hysterical, but I would have to disagree with our graph (although its a great graph if you want to make some point). It implies Christianity is at fault for the lack of advancement. Advancement stopped because of the fall of the Romans. The slow down wasnt caused by Christianity.

 

[Alc]

Chergh, your definition was hysterical, but I would have to disagree with our graph (although its a great graph if you want to make some point). It implies Christianity is at fault for the lack of advancement. Advancement stopped because of the fall of the Romans. The slow down wasnt caused by Christianity.

Even if that were true, the rise of Christianity in Rome was one of the main factors in the society's decline.

From http://www.historyguide.org/ancient/lecture14b.html

"The end result for the Romans was that they managed to create their own world and they called it the Roman Empire. And their world view became embodied in a pagan cult. This cult was nothing less than the patriotic worship of Rome itself. And throughout the Empire we find the expression Genius Populi Romani celebrated by all Romans. If anything sustained the Empire, it was the conception of the "Genius of the Roman People." The Romans were taught to believe that the destiny of Rome was the destiny of the world and this became embodied in a civil religion which embraced the genius of the Roman people. This civil religion was a secular, pagan religion, in which all men devoted their energies toward public service to state. It was their duty to serve the state. It was virtuous. These duties consisted of service and responsibility because only through responsible service would one come to know virtue."

As Christian beliefs became more popular, this form of society couldn't remain as strong.

 

[scott-atkinson]

Well lets first consider exactly what Christianity is. I quite like this definition:

I can't wait for the Movie version... sounds awesome...

 

[oumahexi]

Makes sense to me, until the Romans brought Christianity into Europe our lives were filled with myths and magick that seen no bounds to our possibilities. Christianity was all too restrictive. I don't think we can blame their God for that though, it's like saying that guns kill people, they don't, it's the person who sets the intention and pulls the trigger...