God is Evil

[ShaneMan]

It was my understanding that most of the authors of the books claimed to have been visited by angels. So, it seems there is some divine intervention. (If thats not right, well, being athiest I dont really care.)

It's not right but being your atheist and you don't care, then I guess we'll leave it at that.

 

[ShaneMan]

The bible has lots of predictions, including all of Revelations. So surely we can assume that God has the power of foresight.

In Genesis, God put the tree in the Garden of Eden, and said Adam and Eve could not eat from it, even though he knew they would. When they did eat the fruit, God punished all them, and their descendent's with Original Sin. How is this not evil?

If you were around a child who loves to stick things in sockets, would you put a fork in the child's hand? No, and if you did you would be evil. I see no difference between the two ideas.

Would it not be fair to say, following your logic, that if God did interfere (because He knew what the outcome was going to be) then that would mean He would be the type of God that would stop you from doing all sorts of things. Things that you would consider fun or your own personal choice, and at that point, wouldn't your argument then be that God is evil cause he has made you to be a puppet on a string that does not allow you to do what you choose to do? (all of this based on if there really was a God of course)

 

[ShaneMan]

Well lets first consider exactly what Christianity is. I quite like this definition:



I think at this point everyone agree it's not even worth discussing God or religion any more.

Yep thanks to Christian, Jews, Muslims etc. we're still stuck on this stupid little rock instead of exploring the stars. Thanks for that

I don't agree that it's not worth discussing, so I guess I'm excluded from the "everyone" but I do agree that there are times when it's better to not discuss the topic. God is the subject of this thread so I guess this could be one of those times that I think I can throw a couple of my two cents worth in. I'm not sure why I feel like doing that though cause it's kind of like waking up a pack of wolves that didn't know you were there until you brought their attention to you. By the way it was not an apple, could have been but there was never a claim of it being an apple.

 

[Rich]

The British empire was founded on Christian doctrine as is the only global superpower of today.

China's not a Christian country

 

[Mike375]

Why do atheists deny the possibility of a higher life form than the human?

The only reason I can think of is to acknowledge the possibility of a higher life form than human means the idea of being an atheist falls to pieces.

So do atheists not accept the possibility of life outside earth and also evolution? Are atheists anti science for any particular reason?

 

[Rich]

So do atheists not accept the possibility of life outside earth and also evolution? Are atheists anti science for any particular reason?

It's Christians that don't accept evolution and the possibility of life outside our own planet etc

 

[Mike375]

It's Christians that don't accept evolution and the possibility of life outside our own planet etc

But do you accept evolution and the possibility of life outside our own planet etc

 

[chergh]

Why do atheists deny the possibility of a higher life form than the human?

The only reason I can think of is to acknowledge the possibility of a higher life form than human means the idea of being an atheist falls to pieces.

So do atheists not accept the possibility of life outside earth and also evolution? Are atheists anti science for any particular reason?

What a lot of nonsense. You're trying to create some atheist strawman here.

Once you define what you mean by "higher life form" we can actually have a discussion about it.

Personally as an atheist I reject gods because there is no evidence for their existence.

I do not reject the possibility of life on other planets because as there is life on this planet it seems logical there could be life on other planets and given the sheer size of the universe it would seem higly probable there is life out there some where.

If there is other life out there I have no issues with it being superior to humans in terms of strength, intelligence or any other attribute. I can also accept that it may be so completely different to ourselves that we couldn't even imagine it.

To call atheist anti science is laughable. It is theists after all who call for belief without evidence which is the very antithesis of science.

Anyway once you understand why you reject all other gods you will understand why I reject yours.

 

[Mike375]

If there is other life out there I have no issues with it being superior to humans in terms of strength, intelligence or any other attribute. I can also accept that it may be so completely different to ourselves that we couldn't even imagine it.

Could iit be god like?

Anyway once you understand why you reject all other gods you will understand why I reject yours.

I have not stated I reject any particular gods.

 

[Atomic Shrimp]

"Highest"...is there a form of life higher than us in intelligence etc. If there is it would be unreal. Consider that our DNA and Chimps are supposed to be 99% the same and look at the difference.

If there is a higher form of life than us then it could probably be classed as a "god" but not God.

I'm sure it's possible for things to exist with greater intelligence than humans (after all, it's possible for humans to have different levels of intelligence from each other).

This could mean intelligences similar to that of humans, but better (better or perfect memory, faster processing of data, ability to mentally calculate based on a greater number of variables, etc)

Or it could mean intelligences more effective than humans, because they operate entirely differently (perceive the world around them differently, process inputs using very different mental models, etc)

Neither of those things is an inevitable end result of evolution, for humans or aliens, because evolution has no direction or end goals.
But if something is technically possible, it's probably quite likely that it exists, in a universe as vast as ours.

 

[chergh]

Oh it could be "god like" but as it is "god like" it means it is not a god. Any sufficiently technologically advanced race could appear godlike.

Well do you reject other gods and just believe in the christian "god"? or do you worship Zeus, Jupiter, Thor, Vishnu etc as well?

 

[Mike375]

Well do you reject other gods and just believe in the christian "god"? or do you worship Zeus, Jupiter, Thor, Vishnu etc as well?

I believe there is a superior being or superior beings to us but they are not God as in being all poweful and all knowing etc.

As to whether there is a head office god that is in charge of the whole show I don't know.

 

[chergh]

As to whether there is a head office god that is in charge of the whole show I don't know.

So you are equally unsure of all gods or are you more uncertain about some gods than others?

 

[Mike375]

So you are equally unsure of all gods or are you more uncertain about some gods than others?

I am convinced there are beings superior to us but have no idea how superior.

I think the Bible and other books have truth but the Bible to me indicates a god that is not all powerful. I imagine the Bible is like many books on history in the sense that there is a core of truth but the details would be rough around the edges

But for me it would deny all logic to assume there are no beings which compare to us the way we compare to chimpanzees. For beings that compare to us the way we compare to chimps it would be walk in the park to pull of Noah's ark etc.

 

[chergh]

No most books on history use research and evidence to support their propositions. While there are true events in the bible it's core is all about god and it fails to offer any evidence to support gods existence.

For someone who claims to be agnostic you sure sound a lot like a theist trying to sneak their beliefs in the back door.

 

[oumahexi]

Once you define what you mean by "higher life form" we can actually have a discussion about it.

Personally as an atheist I reject gods because there is no evidence for their existence.

I do not reject the possibility of life on other planets because as there is life on this planet it seems logical there could be life on other planets and given the sheer size of the universe it would seem higly probable there is life out there some where.

Oxford Dictionary definition:

God

• noun 1 (in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and supreme ruler of the universe. 2 (god) a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature and human fortunes. 3 (god) a greatly admired or influential person.

You say you can believe there may be life on other planets because we have established that there is life on this one.

We can also establish that on this planet there are people who have "power over nature (doctors, scientists etc) and human fortunes (our old friends the merchant bankers and polititans), there are also a great many people who we greatly admire and who are influential in our lives. Two out of three definitions for the word God, as it is in the Oxford Dictionary, can, therefore, be found righ here on Earth. Therefore, by your own admition, there must be a possibility that it exists elsewhere in the Universe...

 

[Mike375]

No most books on history use research and evidence to support their propositions. While there are true events in the bible it's core is all about god and it fails to offer any evidence to support gods existence.

But isn't the New Testament something of a history book?

How much research has been done in an effort to disprove the Bible?

For someone who claims to be agnostic you sure sound a lot like a theist trying to sneak their beliefs in the back door.

I am agnostic, I simply don't know. Although as I have already posted I am quite convinced that there are superior beings to us, far superior. But my view is not related to religion. For all I know such beings could be evil, don't know.

I am inclined to think there is no after life and because I don't think the beings that are superior to us have that sort hosepower.

 

[Mike375]

2 (god) a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature and human fortunes.

Beings superior to us will fill that role.

Most atheists seems to write "god" as opposed to "God" so are they denying belief in Number 2?

 

[oumahexi]

Beings superior to us will fill that role.

Most atheists seems to write "god" as opposed to "God" so are they denying belief in Number 2?

No, we can blame Oxford for that, it was just a cut and paste, I don't have an opinion that anyone would find remotely interesting

 

[chergh]

We can also establish that on this planet there are people who have "power over nature (doctors, scientists etc) and human fortunes (our old friends the merchant bankers and polititans

You seemed to have only picked the part off the definition that suits your argument. The Oxford Dictionary said:

a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature and human fortunes

Bankers, politicians, doctors etc. are not superhuman, are not spirits and generally not worshipped. There is also a lot of ambiguity in "superhuman" "spirits" "power over nature and human fortunes" all these would need to be comprehensivley defined to really examine if something would meet this definition.

When god is used as a transitive verb, the 3rd definition, this really doesn't have any relevance to religion in the context it is being discussed here.

As for disproving the bible well I don't think it is something to be disproved. Some of it happened, some of it didn't. There are plenty of contradictions and difficulties with it. See http://www.atheistsbiblecompanion.com/ for more info.