Guilty or Not Guilty? The George Floyd trial...

[Jon]

Once the person is handcuffed the police are responsible for their safety. They cannot stay face down for very long due to suffocation risk.

Did George Floyd suffocate?

 

[moke123]

There was an interesting issue that was brought up from the doctor who pronounced George Floyd dead.

Except a vetinarian is probably qualified to pronounce someone dead. It's the ME's exam that makes a difference.

 

[moke123]

Did George Floyd suffocate?

Lay on your stomach and have some fat guy sit on you. How well can you breath and for how long? The lungs need room to expand.

If you are struggling to breathe and pass out, will you still struggle to breathe?

 

[Jon]

They said only a medical doctor can pronounce someone dead, not a vet. The points I raised were not about qualifications to pronounce someone dead. Instead, they were about the probabilities he assigned for likely causes.

 

[Jon]

Lay on your stomach and have some fat guy sit on you. How well can you breath and for how long? The lungs need room to expand.

So, in your non-medical opinion, do you believe George Floyd suffocated to death?

 

[AccessBlaster]

One autopsy result

Floyd died as a result of mechanical asphyxiation

 

[Jon]

One autopsy result

Who paid for that autopsy? Was it allowed as evidence in court?

 

[AccessBlaster]

There will often be at least two autopsies, one by the state and the other by the family. The pathology will often differ.

 

[moke123]

They said only a medical doctor can pronounce someone dead, not a vet. The points I raised were not about qualifications to pronounce someone dead. Instead, they were about the probabilities he assigned for likely causes.

My point was pronouncing someone dead (ie. no pulse,etc) and determining a cause of death are 2 different things.

Was it allowed as evidence in court?

I dont think they've had that testimony yet.

 

[Jon]

There will often be at least two autopsies, one by the state and the other by the family. The pathology will often differ.

I didn't know if that was common or not. I believe the judge has refused the families autopsy as evidence because it could be biased. I believe the person they used for the autopsy was the same guy who said the state was wrong in the Jeffrey Epstein case. I could be wrong on the refusal, but I think I read or heard that somewhere.

 

[Jon]

My point was pronouncing someone dead (ie. no pulse,etc) and determining a cause of death are 2 different things.

And the point of pointing that out was...?

 

[moke123]

I didn't know if that was common or not. I believe the judge has refused the families autopsy as evidence because it could be biased. I believe the person they used for the autopsy was the same guy who said the state was wrong in the Jeffrey Epstein case. I could be wrong on the refusal, but I think I read or heard that somewhere.

Michael Baden. Met him years ago.

 

[moke123]

And the point of pointing that out was...?

The doctor who calls it doesn't have much information other than the history given to him and a cursory exam. For instance it was not likely that he ordered a tox screen in order to say he was not alive. That would be the realm of the ME.

 

[Jon]

I think regarding George Floyd's death, people will have already made up their mind that the officer is guilty before hearing all the evidence and arguments from both sides. "It's in the video, stupid!" But this is what trials are for. What is Chauvin guilty of, if anything? We don't know yet. You only read countless articles baying for his blood and conviction. Anybody can form an opinion. He looked guilty to me when viewing the viral video. But I have heard a lot of defence arguments and the picture is far less simple than it at first appears to be.

 

[moke123]

They're doing Medical testimony now.

 

[AccessBlaster]

I think regarding George Floyd's death, people will have already made up their mind that the officer is guilty before hearing all the evidence and arguments from both sides. "It's in the video, stupid!" But this is what trials are for. What is Chauvin guilty of, if anything? We don't know yet. You only read countless articles baying for his blood and conviction. Anybody can form an opinion. He looked guilty to me when viewing the viral video. But I have heard a lot of defence arguments and the picture is far less simple than it at first appears to be.

Police bodycams and public cameras have affected all future use of force cases, essentially we are trying these cases in the court of public opinion.

 

[Jon]

The doctor who calls it doesn't have much information other than the history given to him and a cursory exam. For instance it was not likely that he ordered a tox screen in order to say he was not alive. That would be the realm of the ME.

They went through some of what he looked at, but can't remember the details. There are some bullet points in this article:

Doctor Who Pronounced George Floyd Dead Says He Believed ‘Asphyxia’ Most Likely Caused Death

The testimony from Dr. Bradford Langenfeld bolsters the prosecution’s case that George Floyd did not die of a drug overdose.

www.forbes.com

 

[Jon]

I spend far too much time watching this stuff. I watched countless hours of the Oscar Pistorius case. Guilty as hell! I disagreed with the judges verdict, and on appeal it was overturned. I should be a judge!

This guy does some great day by day analysis of both sides of the arguments. He seems far less biased than most of the TV coverage, where they have clearly already made up their minds.

There is no point in having trials if you assume someone is guilty without them being able to supply a defence.

 

[moke123]

Police bodycams and public cameras have affected all future use of force cases, essentially we are trying these cases in the court of public opinion.

Even video can be deceiving. For instance video shot at 30 frames per second as opposed to 15 frames per second may show different things.
For instance you fire a gun 6 times in rapid succesion. One video may show you fired 3 times while the other shows 6 times.

 

[Jon]

I think this trial is far different to the OJ case. With the OJ case, there is no video footage. It is like reading a novel, where what happened is left up to your imagination. In the George Floyd case, the video evidence is compelling.