Gun laws do they work

You can't even remember what I said only a couple of posts ago;
...

... But your right, I need to stop posting.

As opposed to what I actually said;
You need to fact check your sources a little more before you go posting them as truth.

...

So how can we be sure you remember correctly what your history books says :confused: unless you can name it and quote the passage that you are referring to.

...

Big John: My history books written in the fifty's give the real story of what happened. ....
 
... and here is part of what Wiki has to say on the subject;

Harcourt also said "To be sure, the Nazis were intent on killing Jewish persons and used the gun laws and regulations to further the genocide.[10] Harcourt concludes:

[...]Hitler intended to liberalize gun control laws in Germany for "trustworthy" German citizens, while disarming "unreliable" persons, especially the Jewish population. In order to disarm Jewish persons, the Nazi government used both the "trustworthiness" requirements originally legislated in 1928, as well as more direct regulations denying Jews the right to manufacture or possess firearms. It is absurd to even try to characterize this as either pro- or anti-gun control. But if forced to, I would have to conclude, at least preliminarily from this straightforward exercise in statutory interpretation, that the Nazis favored less gun control for the "trustworthy" German citizen than the predecessor Weimar Republic, while disarming the Jewish population and engaging in genocide.[10]
My bolding

Which is substantially different to what you are claiming.

So if you believe that this is incorrect I suggest you should, create an account and correct this error. However be sure you provide plenty of citations for any amendments you make.
 
Errr ... do recall my earlier postulate that genetics or groundwater might play a role :D
 
Big John Booty quoted: "I would have to conclude, at least preliminarily from this straightforward exercise in statutory interpretation, that the Nazis favored less gun control for the "trustworthy" German citizen than the predecessor Weimar Republic, while disarming the Jewish population and engaging in genocide.[10"
Don't you think that is similar to today's society. Those who favor the government keep their guns and those who do not get neutralized in one way or the other. I wonder how many Germans were against Hitler and did not survive to tell. Kind of reminds me of the Liberals vs. Conservatives in the U.S.
*********
Originally Posted by John Big Booty View Post
"You need to fact check your sources a little more before you go posting them as truth. "
**********
My facts are memories of the past, source are the American ,World History books that were being taught through out the U.S. shortly after WWII. Of course, you were not even thought of back then. What are you young people going to do after all of us 'ole geezers' are gone. We remember and try to tell you but you listen in one ear and it goes out the other.
You use sites like Wiki as a source for your history education since they do not teach it any more in schools. It (Wiki) is very suspect in the sources it uses to define history. Much like the liberal left blogs I suspect. I have often wondered how mankind keeps repeating the same bad choices over and over. Now I understand. History is changed every generation or so to fit societies needs thus very few have a clue of what actually went on in the past and a huge majority of society could care less. Someone once said and I forget who, "If you don't remember history you are doomed to repeat it." Remember this, It happened in 1914 and 1939 and the way things are going, it will happen again in the very near future.
Yes, Spikepl, I am a Red Neck Hillbilly with a masters in bacteriology. I appreciate your insult ("Errr ... do recall my earlier postulate that genetics or groundwater might play a role") since it shows me the type of people you really are.
Hope both of you have a great day.
 
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My facts are memories of the past, source are the American ,World History books that were being taught through out the U.S. shortly after WWII.

So books published by wealthy citizens of the victorious side and under conditions where they are beyond criticism makes them completely reliable does it?

"History is written by the victors."

No fool like an old fool.
 
Hello:

I agree that History is written by the victors. However, being written 5 or 6 years after fact and 60+ years after the fact will usually have a completely different outcome. There will be a lot of distortion especially when the different fractions start writing history.

Ask yourself:
1.Why did Germany not invade Great Britain instead of bombing it?
2. Why did Pres. Truman drop the "A" bombs on Japan ?
3. Why has the U.S. never been invaded?

My Observations:
1. Every man, women and child would have been waiting for them to step off their ships. Yes they had guns.
2. If the U.S. had landed there, like #1, there would have been a blood bath on both sides. The way it happened, only an estimated 263,000 (not Americans) lost their lives to the bombs and later fall-out. A far cry from the estimated one million lives lost if an invasion was attempted.
3. we have probably 250-300 million people that would be armed with the intend on standing their ground. Not counting the best armed forces in the world. Now who wants to invade us.

This is but one argument for or against gun control.

Rem. we had to fight England for our freedoms and now they and the rest of Europe pose and even great danger to our freedoms and sovereignty. Liberalism

It was once said: " Those who turn their guns into plows become servants."
 
1.Why did Germany not invade Great Britain instead of bombing it?
2. Why did Pres. Truman drop the "A" bombs on Japan ?
3. Why has the U.S. never been invaded?

1. Germany was already overstretched having invaded most of Europe and taking on Russia. They would have invaded Britain too if they had the resources.

2. They wanted to test the effect of atomic bombs on a real cities. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not even important resources in the Japanese war effort.

3. Isolation. It is very had to invade a country without a nearby base.
 
My facts are memories of the past, source are the American ,World History books that were being taught through out the U.S. shortly after WWII. Of course, you were not even thought of back then. What are you young people going to do after all of us 'ole geezers' are gone. We remember and try to tell you but you listen in one ear and it goes out the other.
You use sites like Wiki as a source for your history education since they do not teach it any more in schools. It (Wiki) is very suspect in the sources it uses to define history. Much like the liberal left blogs I suspect. I have often wondered how mankind keeps repeating the same bad choices over and over. Now I understand. History is changed every generation or so to fit societies needs thus very few have a clue of what actually went on in the past and a huge majority of society could care less. Someone once said and I forget who, "If you don't remember history you are doomed to repeat it." Remember this, It happened in 1914 and 1939 and the way things are going, it will happen again in the very near future.
Yes, Spikepl, I am a Red Neck Hillbilly with a masters in bacteriology. I appreciate your insult ("Errr ... do recall my earlier postulate that genetics or groundwater might play a role") since it shows me the type of people you really are.
Hope both of you have a great day.

Bladerunner

I have no idea about gun laws in Germany.

Where I do agree with you is History, in general. History is not been taught properly. Worse still is that it is slowly and constantly changed.

I have seen so many times in this and other Forums where the writer inserts a link to Mr. Nobody who got his information from Mrs Whocares and claim this as proof of their argument.

I have two children who have completed their degrees at University. If they were to quote Wiki as a source they would receive an automatic fail.

When I was studying there was no internet. We had to use Libraries and books.
 
I have two children who have completed their degrees at University. If they were to quote Wiki as a source they would receive an automatic fail.

They should also have failed if they quoted an encyclopedia because, like WikiPEDIA, an encyclopedia is a collection of references. Academic papers always should quote the original source and never through another publication that references it.
 
Hello:

I agree that History is written by the victors. However, being written 5 or 6 years after fact and 60+ years after the fact will usually have a completely different outcome. There will be a lot of distortion especially when the different fractions start writing history.

Ask yourself:
1.Why did Germany not invade Great Britain instead of bombing it?
2. Why did Pres. Truman drop the "A" bombs on Japan ?
3. Why has the U.S. never been invaded?

My Observations:
1. Every man, women and child would have been waiting for them to step off their ships. Yes they had guns.
2. If the U.S. had landed there, like #1, there would have been a blood bath on both sides. The way it happened, only an estimated 263,000 (not Americans) lost their lives to the bombs and later fall-out. A far cry from the estimated one million lives lost if an invasion was attempted.
3. we have probably 250-300 million people that would be armed with the intend on standing their ground. Not counting the best armed forces in the world. Now who wants to invade us.

This is but one argument for or against gun control.

Rem. we had to fight England for our freedoms and now they and the rest of Europe pose and even great danger to our freedoms and sovereignty. Liberalism

It was once said: " Those who turn their guns into plows become servants."

I think that your answer to Q2 is correct and Galaxiom's to Q3 is correct, but the correct answer to Q1 is that Germany first had to destroy our navy which would have made mincemeat out of any landing armada, but to do that it had to destroy our airforce. Initially they bombed our air bases but Churchill was a sneaky bastard and he sent bombers to bomb German cities, this outraged the Nazis and they switched to bombing our cities, this saved out airforce which then destroyed the German airforce and thus no invasion was possible.

BTW I dont remember my parents or any neighbours having guns in the house, I don't think an armed untrained populace presents much of a threat to a ruthless invading army.

Brian
 
They should also have failed if they quoted an encyclopedia because, like WikiPEDIA, an encyclopedia is a collection of references. Academic papers always should quote the original source and never through another publication that references it.

Yes, you make a good point.

It also depends on the subject. Some softer degrees allow quotes from credible people, where others require you to supply a higher degree of proof. It is not a case of you can't use the internet; it is more of a case complying with the rules set out for each subject.

However just because it is on the internet does not mean it is correct.
 
@Bladerunner

It is not even tempting to attempt to continue this exchange of monologues. Religion does not submit itself to logic, nor does the conviction of the gun people that theirs is the only way to nirvana.

Best regards (from one of those who have exposed the type they are.)
 
spikepl:
Not sure what "nirvana" is (use to be a band or something) but you are right. Religion is in the eye of the beholder. If you don't like it or agree with it, fine.I does not bother me, but do not try to make me believe as you do all though I do belief that is the way it is going. Same way with guns. Because you do not believe in guns, do not try to take mine away and then tell me all is well.
As for Australia, there are only approx. 29 million people on the whole continent and about 90% of those people are in two of its biggest cities. If the cities in the U.S. want to ban guns, fine,, let them do it.

Brianwarnock
As far as can a civilian force stop an army. maybe not but the French resistance did a great job during WWII and 250 million with a gun (even a shotgun) is a force to be reckoned with. Just hope we never have to find out who is right!
The British people would have stop in invasion if it had happen. I have never seen a people so resilient.
Thanks for a good debate . At my age, need a little stimulant. LOL


Have a great day.
 
Q: Who has the right of way when four cars approach a four-way stop at the same time?
A: The pick-up truck with the gun rack and the bumper sticker saying, "Guns don't kill people. I do."
 
Q: Who has the right of way when four cars approach a four-way stop at the same time?
A: The pick-up truck with the gun rack and the bumper sticker saying, "Guns don't kill people. I do."


Cute but not exactly right. Its always who got there first! does that ring a bell for you? The early bird get the worm and such!
 
Q: Who has the right of way when four cars approach a four-way stop at the same time?
A: The pick-up truck with the gun rack and the bumper sticker saying, "Guns don't kill people. I do."

In Australia the Answer is No One.

Does anyone know why?

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Bladerunner.

As for Australia, there are only approx. 29 million people on the whole continent and about 90% of those people are in two of its biggest cities.

Your research is a long way off.
 
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Did anyone see that bloke stood outside the White House reading out 5,000 odd names of people murdered by the gun since the Sandy Hook massacre?
Apparently it took him three days to do it. What was all that about? And why?

Col
 
In Australia the Answer is No One.

Does anyone know why?

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Bladerunner.

When I lived in Oz, you always had to give way to the right even if someone was pulling out of a side street. Being from England, this was most odd, especially when you forget and a car suddenly appears pulling out in front of you.

Col
 
In Australia, and I would assume, England and US etc. but not Asia as there are no rules there.

Every driver has the responsibility to avoid an accident. If you are at an intersection you must give way to any vehicle in order to avoid a collision.
 
Col.

A lot of years ago, prior to me getting my drivers licence in NSW, I spent two years, almost on a daily basis at work, reading a document which was available for free from the NSW motor registry offices. It was the official document, as also used by the Police department, and contained two parts; the Act and the Regulations.

The name of the document was:-
The New South Wales Motor Traffic Act and Regulations 1909 as Amended.

From a fading memory, the original regulation was this:-
“When two vehicles are approaching an intersection so that if they both continue will arrive at the same point and collide the driver of the vehicle which has the other vehicle on the right must slow down or stop to allow the vehicle on the right to pass in front thereof.”

Over a period of time it was understood that that regulation had a problem of visibility. The approach taken was to create a new regulation which involved a Stop sign. The Stop sign applied to the driver of the vehicle on the right and required the vehicle on the right to come to a complete stop before proceeding. The Stop signs were placed as close to the intersections as possible so that the vehicle on the right could be clearly seen by the driver of the vehicle on the left.

But the new Stop regulation in no way altered the original give way to the right regulation. All it did was put the onus on the driver of the vehicle on the right to stop before proceeding. Once the vehicle on the right had stopped the driver of the vehicle on the right could proceed.

It was then understood that that situation also had problems. In particular, high volumes of fast moving traffic still had to give way to the right, bad idea. So they changed the regulations once again. They changed the requirement from ‘Stop’ to ‘Stop and Give Way’.

That original regulation of “Give Way to the Right” has evolved over time. It now depends on the “Local Law” as applied to a particular intersection via official law, which includes signage but is not limited to signage.

If you are referring to T-intersections then that law has changed as well. The driver of the vehicle on the run of the tee does not have to give way to the vehicle on the branch of the tee even if the branch is on the driver’s right.

A general interpretation of the “Give Way to the Right Regulation” would be that we still give way to the right unless some other regulation is in force at the time.

Other regulations include T-intersections, other official signs such as traffic lights, stop signs, give way signs, give way lines and roundabouts.

At a roundabout there is no ‘give way to the right’ regulation because the regulation is to ‘give way to all vehicles already on the roundabout’. Also at a roundabout, we have to give way to trams approaching the roundabout. The difference here is ‘in the roundabout’ as opposed to ‘approaching the roundabout’.

Another regulation which applies is that we should not move into the path of an approaching police or emergency vehicle which is displaying a warning signal. Whether or not the emergency vehicle is required to sound a warning signal, I don’t know. (It would seem unreasonable to me for a deaf driver to have to respond to a sound.) In either case, that would mean approaching from the left or right or turning.

Murky waters…
As Rain has said, there is a general responsibility to avoid a collision.
That is correct, but it could be overruled by other legal requirements.

Another legal requirement is to obey any reasonable direction given by a police officer. The problem with that is that the word ‘reasonable’ was once defined as what the police officer thinks is reasonable, not the driver. The police office could instruct you, as the driver of a vehicle, to break the law. If the police officer thought it reasonable to instruct you to break the law then, by regulation, you should follow that instruction else you are breaking the law.
Example: Police officer; “Driver, I want you to use your vehicle to ram that vehicle out of the way. There is an ambulance coming and it won’t be able to get through if you don’t”.
So despite the intension of the general law, not to deliberately cause a collision, we cause a deliberate collision to obey the law. The law is local to the conditions and supersedes any generally applicable law.

If anyone thinks this is fanciful then they had better think again. Very often the generally applicable law actually originates from industrial practice. In particular, in some areas some emergency vehicles operate differently. For example: we had better not park our vehicle in the wrong place in an oil refinery. As far as I know, the only reason a fire tender might stop while going to a fire, for a vehicle blocking its path, is to check if anyone is in that vehicle else that vehicle becomes expendable. That vehicle then becomes, in the vernacular of current usage, collateral damage.

But, in general then, the traffic regulations only give guidance as to how to behave. A breach of the regulations only proportions the responsibility to the parties concerned based on the applicable laws at the time. Mostly both parties are to be held responsible to some degree; seldom is one party completely exonerated.

Across Australia the legislation has been generalised since Dec-1999.

Further reading if you require it; current as at 5 April 2013:-

http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/T/TrantOpRURR09.pdf

Chris.
 
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