Gun laws do they work

[Dick7Access]

Chicago's anti gun laws are a red herring loved by gun nuts, unless it has tight border controls banning guns in a city surrounded by a country with lax laws is a recipe for disaster, the law enforcement has to be country wide, I would have thought that even the most stupid gun lover would have realised that.

Brian

Other cities are surrounded by the same country and don't have that high rate of murders, so the question is back to what do you suggest that Chicago do?

 

[Brianwarnock]

Chicago should insist that the rest of the country get rid of their guns.

Brian

 

[Dick7Access]

Having only been to Chicago a few times and not really into downtown Chicago, I'm not sure it's a place you can compare to most other US cities. They have their own particular problems, especially financial issues with an awful lot of poverty. Could this possibly be part of the issue? With extreme poverty comes a particular set of issues that can be very difficult to overcome.

Bingo, you win the big cigar. The problem is not guns. It is a cultural issue.

 

[Brianwarnock]

Bingo, you win the big cigar. The problem is not guns. It is a cultural issue.

Of course it's a cultural issue, the culture that people should be armed to the teeth thus making killing easy and impersonal.

Brian

 

[Dick7Access]

Chicago should insist that the rest of the country get rid of their guns.

Brian

They are trying Brian, they are trying, but it won't fix anything. See post before theses. Cultural, Brian, cultural. I would think even the smartest of the anti-gun people would figure that out.

 

[adrianscotter]

Of course it's a cultural issue, the culture that people should be armed to the teeth thus making killing easy and impersonal.

Brian

Hi Brian, I don't know that I necessarily agree with your last statement. The taking of a human life is a huge step. I know a lot of Concealed Carry Permit holders in Florida and the ultimate step would only be taken in dire circumstances. I personally know one man in particular who chose to retreat when faced with that choice. Not everyone will pull the trigger to ensure their own safety.

 

[adrianscotter]

The other thing, of course, is the Second Amendment. I wouldn't like to see what happens should the US Government decide to revoke that amendment. Here in the UK, we were stupid enough to let the Government revoke our right to bear arms. If you look at the Magna Carta (which is not supposed to be changed by Statute), we still have the right to bear arms, just as the US Citizens do, the difference is we're living in a Nanny State, whereas the US is more 'entrepreneurial' in it's approach to governance of the general population. In other words, you need to be responsible for your own actions.

 

[Brianwarnock]

I've lived in the UK for over seventy years and never felt the need to bear arms, why do you? What is your concern that you would make it more likely that hot heads and petty criminals could get hold of guns more easily.

Brian

 

[Brianwarnock]

Hi Brian, I don't know that I necessarily agree with your last statement. The taking of a human life is a huge step. I know a lot of Concealed Carry Permit holders in Florida and the ultimate step would only be taken in dire circumstances. I personally know one man in particular who chose to retreat when faced with that choice. Not everyone will pull the trigger to ensure their own safety.

Perhaps if I lived in the States rather than just visiting as a tourist I too might decide to own a gun, and i am sure that there are many sensible gun owners, they just don't seem to post on this thread.

I have never said that they should ban guns, it is too late for that the genie is out of the bottle, but sensible and enforced gun laws might eventually stop the massacres we read of.


Brian

 

[adrianscotter]

I've lived in the UK for over seventy years and never felt the need to bear arms, why do you? What is your concern that you would make it more likely that hot heads and petty criminals could get hold of guns more easily.

Brian

I don't 'feel the need to bear arms' per se Brian. I love target shooting, I enjoy the camaraderie that goes with it, everyone having the same interest etc. The real issue with the banning of firearms in the UK is that when you outlaw guns, only the outlaws have guns. I can obtain a firearm legally in the UK, however, should I want to go pistol shooting with a live round weapon, not an air weapon, I have to belong to and attend a pistol club for at least six months, and the real downer on this is that the pistol MUST have a barrel length of no less than 14 INCHES! FORTEEN INCHES!!! To me, that's a small rifle... 'standard' assault rifles have a barrel length of around 16 inches so a 14" pistol is ridiculous and for that reason I choose not to bow to the crass stupidity of our government to comply with something that, by nature of being a British Citizen, should be my right as defined in the Magna Carta.

 

[adrianscotter]

Perhaps if I lived in the States rather than just visiting as a tourist I too might decide to own a gun, and i am sure that there are many sensible gun owners, they just don't seem to post on this thread.

I have never said that they should ban guns, it is too late for that the genie is out of the bottle, but sensible and enforced gun laws might eventually stop the massacres we read of.


Brian

I do live in the US for about 6 months of the year and I have to say, hand on heart, I know of no one that 'plays' with the firearms they own. They are sensible, responsible people of all ages from early 20's to well into their 80's. I have never felt uneasy when in the presence of the gun owners and they only remove the firearms from a safe place if asked. Before they are passed to anyone, they are unloaded and shown to be clear. All sensible gun owners have an unspoken etiquette, you do not ask to see a firearm if the person is carrying a concealed weapon, you do not ask in front of anyone else and you need to know them well enough in the first instance to ask at all. It's strange really regarding the massacres, it never seems to happen in Florida where up to 25% of residents have a CCW (concealed carry permit). Probably because the perpetrators of these heinous crimes know that they would probably only get one shot downrange before a quarter of the audience would drop them. They seem to happen primarily were the carry laws are stricter.

 

[Brianwarnock]

Are they carried in schools and on campus because if memory serves me right that is where they seem to happen, on the theatre a shoot out May do more harm than good.
I got the impression that the perps were a bit mentally challenged and they might not , therefore, think it through.


Brian

 

[Brianwarnock]

In a previous post I have already agreed that the ban which affected sport shooting was a political knee jerk reaction to a dreadful incident.

Brian

 

[adrianscotter]

In a previous post I have already agreed that the ban which affected sport shooting was a political knee jerk reaction to a dreadful incident.

Brian

Yes, I believe you did Brian. As for the schools bit; in Texas they have certain teachers that have had training and carry concealed weapons, I'm not sure about any other states. I'm also not sure if they have had active shooters in any Texas schools so I couldn't comment on if that strategy has been successful. To my mind, mentally unhinged or not, I feel sure if the perpetrator thought he might get shot then he'd not take that route but an easier one where he might not. Given the choice Brian, if I still had kids of school age and was in that situation, I would rather have armed teachers than dead kids, don't you agree?

 

[Dick7Access]

I've lived in the UK for over seventy years and never felt the need to bear arms, why do you? What is your concern that you would make it more likely that hot heads and petty criminals could get hold of guns more easily.

Brian

Brian, our sense of logic are on different plains. I don't pretend to understand why that is. My sense of logic, tells me the more guns you take away from law abiding citizens the more there will be available to the criminal element.

 

[adrianscotter]

Brian, our sense of logic are on different plains. I don't pretend to understand why that is. My sense of logic, tells me the more guns you take away from law abiding citizens the more there will be available to the criminal element.

I, for one, agree wholeheartedly with that.

 

[Dick7Access]

I, for one, agree wholeheartedly with that.

I should have added to previous post. When I was 14 I already had two .22 rifles. A 20 gauge double barrel shot gun, and two BB guns. Yet with all that fire power I still had a desire to build my own zip gun, but never had a desire to kill anyone. If someone has a desire to kill someone there is no way to keep a weapon of choice out of there hands.

Do they call homemade guns in GB or Aussie country zip guns?

 

[adrianscotter]

I should have added to previous post. When I was 14 I already had two .22 rifles. A 20 gauge double barrel shot gun, and two BB guns. Yet with all that fire power I still had a desire to build my own zip gun, but never had a desire to kill anyone. If someone has a desire to kill someone there is no way to keep a weapon of choice out of there hands.

Do they call homemade guns in GB or Aussie country zip guns?

In Oz, I have no idea, here in the UK we call them zip guns too. You should know we pull most of our slang terms from the US. They tend not to make zip guns here but they do make single shot shotguns. Just two pieces of pipe that slide one inside the other, a pin in the centre of the largest pipe and a shell inside the smaller. Pull them together and BANG, you have a single shot shotgun. Pretty crude but favoured by the criminal fraternity because they cost £5 to make by anyone with basic skills (US $8), do one contract killing with it and throw it away. Untraceable, just as they like it. Having seen one of these things (legally I hasten to add), I wouldn't like to be the person that has to fire it though.

 

[Bladerunner]

Chicago should insist that the rest of the country get rid of their guns.

Brian

hi Brian: WHY in heavens name would we want the rest of the country to give up our guns because the city with the strictest gun laws and one of the highest murder rates want us to? They had 140 guns shots the other weekend and they want us to throw away our guns,,,,,,,,,,,LOL

The gangs in Chicago are real and they have guns. If all the guns were confiscated in the U.S. they would still be able to get guns because of gun runners from other countries including yours.Only the lawless buy a gun on the black market. Just like a lock on a door. It is only going to keep the honest person out. Get over it. Besides you over there have a little more to worry about now that Russia has shown its true colors. Rem, for a minimum of two/5 years, we won't be there to help.

 

[Bladerunner]

Perhaps if I lived in the States rather than just visiting as a tourist I too might decide to own a gun, and i am sure that there are many sensible gun owners, they just don't seem to post on this thread.

I have never said that they should ban guns, it is too late for that the genie is out of the bottle, but sensible and enforced gun laws might eventually stop the massacres we read of.


Brian

Yes, after WWII, Europeans had seen enough death and destruction. Most of those sensible gun owners would post similar posts to that of D7A and myself.

Pull up CHicago on the news and see what their guns laws do. Washington DC is the murder capital of the US and World. Does the Oklahoma bombing bring any other way to kill people to mind. These NUT CASES will find a way.