I never have understood this...

[Kraj]

Lisa,

I was very surprised when I read your post because every word of it describes me as well. *e-hug*

I'd be more than happy to converse with you also, Selena, on this topic. We seem to do that well.

Oh, and as far as the whole Bible vs. psychic ability thing... since no one can - as of yet - prove psychic ability exists, it's a matter or belief. Personally I think the Bible forbids "fortune telling" and such because it means putting faith into something other than the Christian model of God, and therefore is threatening to Christianity. I think a lot of the rules of Christianity have little to do with one's relationship with God and a lot to do with the survival and power of the Christian religion (at least when they first appeared, now they're simply accepted as part of dogma). My two cents.

 

[jsanders]

what has christianity got to do with it?

If people break the law of the land - and the penalty for their crime is death - so be it. Thats tough sh*t - don't break the law - quite simple

Col

That Argument was directed to people of Christian faith reconciling capital punishment with their Christianity.

If you read my other post on it you will see valid non Christian reasons for eliminating it from “The Law of the Land”.

From a purely logical point of view, what advantage to society does it serve; but revenge?

And as the Chinese say, “You better dig two graves”.

 

[selenau837]

Lisa,

I was very surprised when I read your post because every word of it describes me as well. *e-hug*

I'd be more than happy to converse with you also, Selena, on this topic. We seem to do that well.

Oh, and as far as the whole Bible vs. psychic ability thing... since no one can - as of yet - prove psychic ability exists, it's a matter or belief. Personally I think the Bible forbids "fortune telling" and such because it means putting faith into something other than the Christian model of God, and therefore is threatening to Christianity. I think a lot of the rules of Christianity have little to do with one's relationship with God and a lot to do with the survival and power of the Christian religion (at least when they first appeared, now they're simply accepted as part of dogma). My two cents.

Ohh, goodie another topic you and I can dicuss Greg. I would really love to discuss that with you also. Perhaps you can help me understand as well.

I'll catch you on our regular chatting place sometime. *huge hug* Thanks deary.

 

[selenau837]

what has christianity got to do with it?

If people break the law of the land - and the penalty for their crime is death - so be it. Thats tough sh*t - don't break the law - quite simple

Col

 

[ColinEssex]

Oh, and as far as the whole Bible vs. psychic ability thing... since no one can - as of yet - prove psychic ability exists,

No-one can as of yet prove a god or a christ exists either. Its all make believe and brainwashing

Col

 

[ColinEssex]

That Argument was directed to people of Christian faith reconciling capital punishment with their Christianity.

Christians have no problem sending people to death - an example is GWB sending US troops to die all based on a lie to boost his ego

If thats christianity in action I'm glad I'm out of it

Also, if someone tortures people for kicks and is real nasty then "finds god" they get to go to heaven. Right?

How about someone who is hard working and never hurt anyone or anything, often living a (biblically) better life than many christians - they die and go to hell - just because they didn't "find god"?

Some religion that is totally stupid.

Col

 

[ShaneMan]

No-one can as of yet prove a god or a christ exists either. Its all make believe and brainwashing

Col

Nor can they not prove He doesn't exists. It's easy to throw an opinion out, that's done everyday here. People find what they are looking for. You don't want there to be a God so for you, He doesn't exist. Personally, I thank God I'm "brainwashed."

 

[selenau837]

I know there is a God. I live today as does my daughter by the grace of God. We were both suppose to die in childbirth, but I'm still here. I thank God everyday for my life.

I believe in God and my faith has not changed. I'm simply torn on some issues. As discussed above. Once I have a chat with Lisa and Greg, perhaps I won't be. I'm also still soul searching. Faith is what keeps me alive and going. I have to believe there is a God. For this life sucks, and I hate to think there is nothing past this life.

 

[ColinEssex]

Nor can they not prove He doesn't exists. It's easy to throw an opinion out, that's done everyday here. People find what they are looking for. You don't want there to be a God so for you, He doesn't exist. Personally, I thank God I'm "brainwashed."

I would love there to be a god or something. Life on earth is pure hell so it would be nice to have something better after you die - which I hope is "before I get old"

I went to various churches for ages to try to find this god - all I found was hypocritical, two faced people who looked down on me as if I was something they stood in. In one church, even the treasurer was skimming 10% of the collection.

I gave this example to a vicar -

Also, if someone tortures people for kicks and is real nasty then "finds god" they get to go to heaven. Right?

How about someone who is hard working and never hurt anyone or anything, often living a (biblically) better life than many christians - they die and go to hell - just because they didn't "find god"?

I said the second person is actually my 70 year old Mother - he said if she hasn't found god, she'll go to hell. The reformed nasty person will go to heaven. So much for a caring god.


Then we see all these bishops and vicars abusing children and dealing in porno stuff.

I'm afraid a book about some clever dick who performs illusions and cons others into thinking he's special is pure fantasy.

Col

 

[jsanders]

I know there is a God. I live today as does my daughter by the grace of God. We were both suppose to die in childbirth, but I'm still here. I thank God everyday for my life.

I believe in God and my faith has not changed. I'm simply torn on some issues. As discussed above. Once I have a chat with Lisa and Greg, perhaps I won't be. I'm also still soul searching. Faith is what keeps me alive and going. I have to believe there is a God. For this life sucks, and I hate to think there is nothing past this life.

I'm sorry S837, that you feel that way, for me life is a great adventure.

 

[selenau837]

I'm sorry S837, that you feel that way, for me life is a great adventure.

Perhaps, it will pick up! But only time will tell.

 

[ShaneMan]

I would love there to be a god or something. Life on earth is pure hell so it would be nice to have something better after you die - which I hope is "before I get old"

I went to various churches for ages to try to find this god - all I found was hypocritical, two faced people who looked down on me as if I was something they stood in. In one church, even the treasurer was skimming 10% of the collection.

I gave this example to a vicar -


I said the second person is actually my 70 year old Mother - he said if she hasn't found god, she'll go to hell. The reformed nasty person will go to heaven. So much for a caring god.


Then we see all these bishops and vicars abusing children and dealing in porno stuff.

I'm afraid a book about some clever dick who performs illusions and cons others into thinking he's special is pure fantasy.

Col

Yes, there are hypocritical, two faced people, but I don't view this as God's fault. I see it as folks who are making choices contrary to what is taught. I'm afraid I'm guilty of this from time to time. The apostle Paul said, "Oh this body of flesh. The things that I want to do I don't and the things I don't want to do, I do." We are all born with a sinful nature that is selfish and seeks it's own. If God was to total interfer, which He could, and make folks do the "right thing", then we would become nothing more than puppets. I believe God has chosen to leave a large portion of our decisions to us and unfortunately people make a lot of wrong choices.

As far as "christian types" doing porno and abusing kids. The main thing I can say is, "people can claim anything they want but that doesn't necessarily make it true." Just cause a cat's born in an oven, doesn't make it a biscuit. If a person reads and follows the Bible then it would take much to figure out that these things would not be a representation of christianity, so with that being said, these men can claim the name of Christ but when they do these things there actions are speaking louder than their words. You know I've heard it said that "your life might be the only Bible someone reads." I'm sorry that the lives that you have gotten to "read" have been poor representations.

 

[jsanders]

Col, seek the power of the Holy Spirit.

Even Christ said you can speak against me sand still be saved but speak not against the Holy Spirit.

Look for the Holy Spirit and wisdom will be revealed to you.

 

[ColinEssex]

Col, seek the power of the Holy Spirit.

I do every night its called vodka

Col

 

[ddmcn]

I'm not saying we shouldn't punish criminals. I'm saying that the punishment does not have to be the death penalty.

The question was..."What gives the state the right to put people to death?

My input was that we do...with our laws. I've been back and forth on the death penalty myself...but, the law is there because we put it there.

 

[Matty]

Based on your previous response, you said that there are laws to punish criminals and that by not punishing them we are creating anarchy. My response is that they should be punished, but not by killing them.

 

[MrsGorilla]

Col/Rich/anyone else on the "other side of the pond", how is religion "organized" over there? How many different choices do you have? Col, you were saying you spoke to many different vicars and that they were all condescending towards you, were they from different faiths? I know you have the Church of England, is it state-run? It seems like here we have so many different churches to choose from...Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, yada yada yada that someone (almost) always can find a church/pastor that "speaks" to them in a way that others don't. I was just wondering if it was the same over there.

As far as your other comment with your mother and the reformed nasty guy, I've posed that same question to a minister myself and it's one of the things that I have a hard time reconciling with my faith at times. I don't want to believe that good people will be punished for eternity because they didn't find God, and I'm not convinced that a loving, caring God would punish one of his children like that. So I'm with you on that one particular point.

 

[jsanders]

I do every night its called vodka

Col

I’ve had a few myself over the years.

But it’s been 17 since the last. Don’t miss it a bit.

 

[selenau837]

I’ve had a few myself over the years.

But it’s been 17 since the last. Don’t miss it a bit.

Way to go!!

 

[jsanders]

Way to go!!

I think there is alwas more to people than what meets the eye.