News Stories Rants

[dan-cat]

You almost had me ready to discus it with you 'till you made the 'brain' wise crack at the end...

I'm sorry for being rude.

I think I'm getting a bit disillusioned with people's decreasing quantities of empathy for their fellow man.

Why should someone not be able to express their feelings of alienation because a bunch of thugs who claim the same faith kill innocent people? Or that their parents originate from distant countries that commit atrocities to people who do complain?

I think we're letting these thugs degrade our compassion and in fear of being rude again, I didn't expect you to show such little empathy.

 

[ColinEssex]

How about this; 'Some of us Christians feel alienated in Afghanistan'...

Having spent a while travelling round Afghanistan, I can assure you any "white" person feels alienated.

You are stared at and pointed at wherever you go and if a white female should show any part of their hair, you get women coming up to you and shouting things at you

We went up into "bandit" country and because there were several westerners in the "hotel" we had armed guards with machine guns to diffuse any kidnap chance.

Col

 

[KenHigg]

Having spent a while travelling round Afghanistan, I can assure you any "white" person feels alienated.

You are stared at and pointed at wherever you go and if a white female should show any part of their hair, you get women coming up to you and shouting things at you

We went up into "bandit" country and because there were several westerners in the "hotel" we had armed guards with machine guns to diffuse any kidnap chance.

Col

Is there something in the Muslim doctrine that denounces tolerance of other faiths?

 

[ColinEssex]

Is there something in the Muslim doctrine that denounces tolerance of other faiths?

I've got no idea. We just did our best to abide by their dress code in respect of us being in their country.

I will say however that some of their mosques are really beautiful from an architectural point of view.

Col

 

[KenHigg]

I'm sorry for being rude.

Darn, now I feel bad...

I think I'm getting a bit disillusioned with people's decreasing quantities of empathy for their fellow man.

Why should someone not be able to express their feelings of alienation because a bunch of thugs who claim the same faith kill innocent people? Or that their parents originate from distant countries that commit atrocities to people who do complain?

Ok, good points, I retreat...

I think we're letting these thugs degrade our compassion and in fear of being rude again, I didn't expect you to show such little empathy.

 

[ShaneMan]

Is there something in the Muslim doctrine that denounces tolerance of other faiths?

Actually, Ken, the answer is "yes." Read a book, in their bible, called Sudah. In that book, in several places it actually say's to kill infidels. Infidels are anyone that does not believe in the Muslim doctrines. It tells them to try and convert an individual to the Muslim faith but if you can not then you are to dismember them, is one of the passages. When you read it, it makes you start to wonder if OBL is really a radical. I sounds more like he's a fundamentalist and the one's that don't kill you for not being a Muslim, are the radicals.

 

[dan-cat]

Actually, Ken, the answer is "yes." Read a book, in their bible, called Sudah. In that book, in several places it actually say's to kill infidels. Infidels are anyone that does not believe in the Muslim doctrines. It tells them to try and convert an individual to the Muslim faith but if you can not then you are to dismember them, is one of the passages. When you read it, it makes you start to wonder if OBL is really a radical. I sounds more like he's a fundamentalist and the one's that don't kill you for not being a Muslim, are the radicals.

I think you can take passages from any book of faith and interpret the same lack of tolerance. What about this passage:

And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

Numbers 31 is laden with violence by the command of God.

17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Not trying to attack Christianity here, just saying that there is plenty of violent imagery in the bible as well.

 

[selenau837]

I see your point dan, but can you show me a passage that says to kill non-believers?

 

[dan-cat]

I see your point dan, but can you show me a passage that says to kill non-believers?

2 Kings 10:18-27

 

[selenau837]

2 Kings 10:18-27

I don't have my bible with me, can you please write what it says.

 

[dan-cat]

I don't have my bible with me, can you please write what it says.

This is King James version, verse 30 is actually the most important part.

And Jehu gathered all the people together, and said unto them, Ahab served Baal a little; but Jehu shall serve him much.

19Now therefore call unto me all the prophets of Baal, all his servants, and all his priests; let none be wanting: for I have a great sacrifice to do to Baal; whosoever shall be wanting, he shall not live. But Jehu did it in subtilty, to the intent that he might destroy the worshippers of Baal.

20And Jehu said, Proclaim a solemn assembly for Baal. And they proclaimed it.

21And Jehu sent through all Israel: and all the worshippers of Baal came, so that there was not a man left that came not. And they came into the house of Baal; and the house of Baal was full from one end to another.

22And he said unto him that was over the vestry, Bring forth vestments for all the worshippers of Baal. And he brought them forth vestments.

23And Jehu went, and Jehonadab the son of Rechab, into the house of Baal, and said unto the worshippers of Baal, Search, and look that there be here with you none of the servants of the LORD, but the worshippers of Baal only.

24And when they went in to offer sacrifices and burnt offerings, Jehu appointed fourscore men without, and said, If any of the men whom I have brought into your hands escape, he that letteth him go, his life shall be for the life of him.

25And it came to pass, as soon as he had made an end of offering the burnt offering, that Jehu said to the guard and to the captains, Go in, and slay them; let none come forth. And they smote them with the edge of the sword; and the guard and the captains cast them out, and went to the city of the house of Baal.

26And they brought forth the images out of the house of Baal, and burned them.

27And they brake down the image of Baal, and brake down the house of Baal, and made it a draught house unto this day.

28Thus Jehu destroyed Baal out of Israel.

29Howbeit from the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, who made Israel to sin, Jehu departed not from after them, to wit, the golden calves that were in Bethel, and that were in Dan.

30And the LORD said unto Jehu, Because thou hast done well in executing that which is right in mine eyes, and hast done unto the house of Ahab according to all that was in mine heart, thy children of the fourth generation shall sit on the throne of Israel.

 

[selenau837]

This is King James version, verse 30 is actually the most important part.

Ok, I've read it and I see that it is more history, than a commandment. If I'm understanding correctly, in the Mulsim religion, they should convert you, and if they can't, they are suppose to kill you.

No where in the bible I can remember that says the same thing.

 

[dan-cat]

Ok, I've read it and I see that it is more history, than a commandment. If I'm understanding correctly, in the Mulsim religion, they should convert you, and if they can't, they are suppose to kill you.

No where in the bible I can remember that says the same thing.

This is all down to interpretation. You interpret the passage as more history than a commandment. Someone else could easily interpret the same passage as you can please God by slaying one of another faith. The passage clearly states that God was pleased with the slaying of the Baal worshippers.

Some, a very minor few, interpret the slaying of infidels literally and go out and do it. The majority of muslims obviously do not interpret these passages the same way do they? Yet we're quite happy to tar them with snippets from their faith and dismiss the similarities with our own.

Historically, crusades have been just as cruel and bloody as any jihad.

 

[selenau837]

This is all down to interpretation. You interpret the passage as more history than a commandment. Someone else could easily interpret the same passage as you can please God by slaying one of another faith. The passage clearly states that God was pleased with the slaying of the Baal worshippers.

Some, a very minor few, interpret the slaying of infidels literally and go out and do it. The majority of muslims obviously do not interpret these passages the same way do they? Yet we're quite happy to tar them with snippets from their faith and dismiss the similarities with our own.

Historically, crusades have been just as cruel and bloody as any jihad.

Yes, and the crusades were against the Christians and the Muslim. Apparently this is a battle that has been going on forever, and will probably truely never end.

 

[ShaneMan]

I think you can take passages from any book of faith and interpret the same lack of tolerance. What about this passage:



Numbers 31 is laden with violence by the command of God.




Not trying to attack Christianity here, just saying that there is plenty of violent imagery in the bible as well.

Hey dancat,

Yes, these passages are in the Bible but I don't think you can get what the Bible says, in these passages, and what the Korah says, to come close to matching apples with apples. The passages you have quoted are due to individuals sins or a whole nations sins against God and God judged them and punished them. The Korah teaches that if a person does not believe then they are infidels and are to be put to death. The people that died, at the Baal sacrifice, was not due to not believing in God. It was due to them worshipping an idol.

 

[dan-cat]

Yes, and the crusades were against the Christians and the Muslim. Apparently this is a battle that has been going on forever, and will probably truely never end.

Yep, I'm afraid it takes two to tango and neither side is turning the other cheek as it were.

GWB went stomping into the Middle East with his "God is on our side" justifications and his lies about WMD's, not caring a fig about how the muslim doctine would interpret such an aggressive move. Saddam had been surpressing religious factions for years and yet GWB was ignorant enough to think that those militants would welcome the "crusaders" with open arms.

Now because of GWB's stupidity, some start thinking that all Muslims have murderous intent - which is simply not true. Talk to any Brit here about the "Christian" thugs in Ireland. Every religion has their own brand of nut-job.

 

[Rich]

Talk to any Brit here about the "Christian" thugs in Ireland. Every religion has their own brand of nut-job.

Actually the "Christian thugs" as you put it were no more Christian than Hussein

 

[Rich]

So what? At least they are publicly expressing their gripes with the authority rather than secretly planning violent 'revenge' against it in the form of terrorism.
...

No they can walk around in a Christian country carrying placards that openly incite hatred and murder though, I wonder how Muslim countries would have reacted if Christians were parading around in their country demanding the same.

 

[selenau837]

Fanaticism in any religion is bad. There are true believers who follow the religion to the tee and not become over zealous, and then there are those to pick out parts of the Doctrine, translate it to fit their needs and become fanatical to the point of insanity.

Religion is very dogmatic to some people. It is passed down from generation to generation and can become very warped in the process. Religion in the wrong hands is very dangerous. Very sad really!

 

[Rich]

There are true believers who follow the religion to the tee and not become over zealous, and then there are those to pick out parts of the Doctrine, translate it to fit their needs and become fanatical to the point of insanity.

An eye for an eye ?