Pay your bills

[Pat Hartman]

Trump as a personality is offensive to many. I have to admit to cringing at some of the things he says. I chalk it up to him having experience as an entertainer but not a politician. When I listen to Marco Rubio speak, I can tell that the man spends hours every day in front of a mirror delivering policy lines so he alway has a coherent answer. Trump speaks off the cuff. That means that he is thinking as he is speaking and it is not a rote delivery of something he has thought about before. So, thoughts come out half baked at times.

I personally don't care if the world thinks my President is a bully. All that means is they aren't going to take the chance of poking him the wrong way. Putin didn't invade any countries while Trump was President. Funny how that works. Weak positions put us and the world in danger. Strong positions keep the aggressors at bay. Look at what that idiot Biden did when we left Afghanistan. BILLIONS of dollars of the best technology my money can by left for the Taliban to use or to sell to other terrorists. Couldn't we have found someone to give this stuff to if we didn't want to take it back? Who in their right mind evacuates the military before the civilians and materiel?

When we get to policy, Trump is my guy. I disagree with some of the things he's done but most of the time, his policies are good for America. A second Trump term will be an existential threat to the deep state. That means both the Dems and Republicans will be impacted. I sure hope Trump has an army of folks in training and ready to step in and start cutting. His cut two regulations for every new one was great as far as it went. But he needs a "cheaper by the dozen" approach this term.

 

[Isaac]

To what entity do they pay their share? Look at Trumps previous statements re NATO, it's not hyperbole.

Show me evidence , not just speculation, but hard evidence that proves he really wants Putin to start invading Nato states.

 

[Isaac]

The countries that obviously benefit the most from NATO - small European countries - should pay a heck of a lot higher % of their GDP.
If they value their hide.

 

[Pat Hartman]

The Dems like to hold these countries up as examples of social welfare. Of course, they got to transfer their defense budget to us so we pay for their defense while they give away "free" stuff and have budget surpluses while we mortgage our future with debt.

I didn't think our Constitution was a suicide pact.

 

[AccessBlaster]

Pretty sure NATO triggered Putin in the same way Nikita Khrushchev triggered JFK when they installed nukes in Cuba.

 

[Pat Hartman]

Notice that the thread starter has nothing to say about his defense of NATO countries stiffing us by not paying their fair share He says that Trump doesn't pay his bills but it is perfectly OK for others to do that to US. The logic of people with TDS is Byzantine at best but mostly totally missing. If Trump against it they have to be for it. Logic be damned..

 

[Steve R.]

Pretty sure NATO triggered Putin in the same way Nikita Khrushchev triggered JFK when they installed nukes in Cuba.

NATO was supposed to be a defensive alliance against the now defunct Soviet Union. With the collapse of the Soviet Union, NATO has expanded into many of the former Soviet Republics, which has pissed off the Russians, especially Putin.

To make matters worse, Biden/Harris arrogantly taunted Putin by telling Putin that if the Ukraine wanted to join NATO Putin could pound-sand. Essentially that insult was a last straw for Putin, so he took the challenge and invaded. To my knowledge, Biden/Harris made absolutely no attempt to work on a diplomatic solution with Putin before he invaded. This from Biden, who claims to be such a world renowned expert in international diplomacy.

 

[Isaac]

The Dems like to hold these countries up as examples of social welfare. Of course, they got to transfer their defense budget to us so we pay for their defense while they give away "free" stuff and have budget surpluses while we mortgage our future with debt.

I didn't think our Constitution was a suicide pact.

More like American defense charity handout welfare

 

[Isaac]

But yeah I have no idea why everybody's losing their shit about the comments that Trump made. He was making a point and I completely and totally agree with it and I think many other people do as well

 

[Pat Hartman]

and I think many other people do as well

Yeah but that's where the crazy kicks in. They KNOW that it is wrong for NATO countries to stick us with the check but they can't reconcile that with Trump actually calling them out on it. This thread is the perfect example. The OP was trying to imply that somehow because the Trump organization didn't pay bills where they didn't get what they paid for was wrong so it was also wrong for Trump to complain that NATO countries were stiffing us as if the NATO fees were going into Trump's pocket somehow. It all gets very confusing to try to make sense of the ad hominem attacks on Trump. So, because it was Trump calling out NATO members not paying their fees, there is a conundrum. If they disagree with Trump's point, they are then saying it is OK for NATO countries to stiff us but they can't say that Trump was right to call them out because Trump can't be right about anything.

It's like a broken robot in the movies, twitching, "does not compute", "does not compute" It's a tight loop they can't exit from.

 

[Jon]

If a police officer gets a speeding ticket at some stage during his life, but is then put on traffic duty, it does not mean he can no longer give someone else a speeding ticket. His prior ticket is pretty much irrelevant. He is there to enforce the law, just like Trump is there to collect the gym fees.

 

[Thales750]

Calling Joe Biden a good and competent president is a long con of its own special type.

Having said that, I'm not entirely happy with Trump either. I originally supported him and STILL don't think he's the devil. But this country needs a wake-up call that the Democratic Party is NOT your friend - it is your exploiter. To them, you are a cash cow and a tethered vote.

Part of me fears another Trump turn in office, part of me thinks that another Biden term in office is worse. Caught between Scylla and Charibdis, the original source of the phrase "a rock and a hard place."

I usually avoid these conversation all together. Devil, or not, all he does is spew ugly, and build contempt across the aisle.
Even this thing on the border, in my state (Texas) serves no purpose but to aid Trump in his reelection campaign. There is no existential treat here. There is only divisive politics. You can see how emotional people are about all this.

Emotion disguised as reason.

 

[Thales750]

I have looked at the evidence.

You have looked at the carefully prepared Trump propaganda.

If you can't see that the lack of offering a reward as evidence of a coverup, then you will only see what want to see.

 

[Steve R.]

There is only divisive politics

Biden is a master at spewing offensive divisive politics. To paraphrase what Biden said to a Black man, "if you don't vote for me you aren't Black enough." Biden has made racism (DEI) federal policy. This directly reverse King's quest that decisions be made on the content of one's character and not the color of one's skin. It also negates the very concept that this country should be a meritocracy.

 

[Pat Hartman]

If you can't see that the lack of offering a reward as evidence of a coverup, then you will only see what want to see.

And you will never look at the evidence that has already been collected. You choose to ignore it because if someone reported an irregularity, you assume they are a Trump supporter and therefore they are lying. That means that you would accept no evidence. Do you actually think a Biden supporter would report any irregularity he found that helped his candidate? So, keep your mind closed and unpolluted by the evidence that already exists.

 

[Thales750]

Biden is a master at spewing offensive divisive politics. To paraphrase what Biden said to a Black man, "if you don't vote for me you aren't Black enough." Biden has made racism (DEI) federal policy. This directly reverse King's quest that decisions be made on the content of one's character and not the color of one's skin. It also negates the very concept that this country should be a meritocracy.

Why are you bringing up Biden?
Using the argument that the other guys is just as bad really doesn't do much to rectify the problem. But if you were going to make a legidiment case you would have to do an AI search on public speeches. I think it's pretty obvious that Trump would have at least 2 orders of magnitude more lies and divisive statements than Biden.

Comparing is ridiculous in any case. This is my interpretation of your rebuttal. Your only defense for Trump is to try to prove someone else is worse. Think about that.

 

[Jon]

I think context matters. If you have a DOJ that prosecutes one side of the political aisle but not the other, then it gives the impression of unequal application of the law. And in particular, when the Democrats have a strategy to prevent Trump from winning a second term by endless lawsuits, the wider picture is very much relevant. In this particular case, going after one candidate with the law whilst turning a blind eye to the other (and you an include Hillary Clinton in that), means that it is a political persecution, rather than just enforcing the law.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

There is no existential treat here.

Actually, there is. If we don't control the border, we have essentially destroyed our economy by bringing in people who don't contribute to the tax base that provides / pays for support services. We have allowed a conduit for drug money which siphons off to the cartels in other countries. We have allowed unknown numbers of terrorists to enter unchecked. YES there is an existential threat.

 

[AccessBlaster]

The existential threat is liberal ideology. Just look at what it's done to New York, San Francisco etc. Once great cities reduced to open air prisons for the mentally ill.

 

[Thales750]

And you will never look at the evidence that has already been collected. You choose to ignore it because if someone reported an irregularity, you assume they are a Trump supporter and therefore they are lying. That means that you would accept no evidence. Do you actually think a Biden supporter would report any irregularity he found that helped his candidate? So, keep your mind closed and unpolluted by the evidence that already exists.

That's because it made up Pat. Like flat earthers, and contrail conspiracies. Trump took his lessens from Goebbels and Hitler. Tell big lies and tell them often, never stop telling the lies, and people will believe you.
Then later, when they start to doubt the validity of these lies they are too embarrassed to admit the lies for looking foolish.

Actually, there is. If we don't control the border, we have essentially destroyed our economy by bringing in people who don't contribute to the tax base that provides / pays for support services. We have allowed a conduit for drug money which siphons off to the cartels in other countries. We have allowed unknown numbers of terrorists to enter unchecked. YES there is an existential threat.

Come on Doc. existential?
This border thing could be fixed in a single afternoon. It only exist, in this moment, to get Trump elected.

I've been in the construction business for the last 35 years. We need those workers here, working. But our politicians need division. So they continue to switch sides back and forth.

Going all the way back to Ragan. You listen to his speeches now and he sounds like a Liberal. You listen to old speeches from previous and even current Dems they sound like a bunch hard line conservatives. Give me a break. The border is more of the same old divide and conquer. The conquerors are the same people they have always been. We now refer to them as the Financial Sector, in olden days they were the Crown, the Emperor, etc.

You're next argument is going to be they are welcome as long as they as they are here legally. Go ahead use that argument.