Pay your bills (2 Viewers)

[Isaac]

Your only defense for Trump is to try to prove someone else is worse

But that's exactly what elections are?

 

[Isaac]

In other news, Trump is so stupid some days

Biden, Trump continue to stack up delegates in primaries and caucuses

The 2024 Republican primary is in full swing, as former President Donald Trump continues to hold a commanding lead over former South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Thales750]

But that's exactly what elections are?

They shouldn't be.
And, sorry for the "your" typo. lol

 

[Isaac]

They shouldn't be.
And, sorry for the "your" typo. lol

I agree. We need better people
Some of the things Trump says are dumber than a bag of hammers

 

[Isaac]

Think of that for a second. A bag of hammers!

 

[Thales750]

In other news, Trump is so stupid some days

Biden, Trump continue to stack up delegates in primaries and caucuses

The 2024 Republican primary is in full swing, as former President Donald Trump continues to hold a commanding lead over former South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley.

www.foxnews.com

I saw some other ones like that. there is no doubt that Trump is the biggest enemy facing Republicans this year. Trump Conservatives on the street have destroyed Christianity, and now they are going after Republicans.

Many folks will vote for a drooling, incoherent, Biden if that is the only alternative to Trump.

 

[Steve R.]

Trump says he will encourage putin to invade Nato countries that "Don't Pay their Bills". This froma a man that has cheated and stiffed more peoople than you can count. He stiffs lawyers then asks for his followers to send him money for the fees he does not pay. Grift.

Your comment, to be polite, totally misinterprets what Trump said in a negative manner. The members of NATO need to pay their "fair share" for their defense. Biden perpetually whines that the rich need to pay their "fair share" of taxes (while his family does not). Shouldn't that be true for the members of NATO?

Why are you bringing up Biden?
Using the argument that the other guys is just as bad really doesn't do much to rectify the problem. But if you were going to make a legidiment case you would have to do an AI search on public speeches. I think it's pretty obvious that Trump would have at least 2 orders of magnitude more lies and divisive statements than Biden.

Comparing is ridiculous in any case. This is my interpretation of your rebuttal. Your only defense for Trump is to try to prove someone else is worse. Think about that.

You don't get to solely define the parameters of an argument. Based on your restrictive premise and logic the theme of this thread would be limited to only deliberating on the evils of Trump. Which would only reinforce your flawed premise. Biden is a greater grifter and liar than Trump (assuming that Trump has those negative characteristics). Even more nefarious, Biden is using the power to the state to persecute Trump and his associates.

 

[AccessBlaster]

Your comment, to be polite, totally misinterprets what Trump said in a negative manner. The members of NATO need to pay their "fair share" for their defense. Biden perpetually whines that the rich need to pay their "fair share" of taxes (while his family does not). Shouldn't that be true for the members of NATO?

 

[Pat Hartman]

That's because it made up Pat.

Of course it's made up. You have made that decision. It can't be real because it doesn't conform to your definition of what constitutes evidence

lessens from Goebbels and Hitler. Tell big lies and tell them often, never stop telling the lies, and people will believe you.

I'm sure you still believe the Russia, Russia, Russia hoax. The fact that both Hilary Clinton personally and her election campaign were fined over $100,000 for starting the hoax with the bogus Steele dossier can't possibly be true. And yet it is. Google and FB and Twitter, etc. NEVER filter your feeds. They don't suppress people they disagree with which keeps you from seeing actual facts.

How about that Hunter Biden laptop that everyone you heard said was Russian dis-information and Biden got 50 odd security "experts" to confirm that opinion even though the FBI had the laptop in their possession and knew for a fact it was real and it was filled with incriminating information about how the Biden crime family operated?

How about former business partners of Hunter testifying to Congress that Joe was involved in the influence peddling scheme. They are producing emails and recorded phone conversations but I'm sure you think they are all lies too.

LIES, LIES, LIES - you are being fed lies constantly and you don't even understand how it happens. The lies are not coming from Trump who seems to be alive and living in your head. They are coming from the Biden administration. Mayorkas testified to Congress multiple times that the border was closed and there was no problem. "These are not the droids you are looking for". Now he has been impeached and will be replaced by a clone who implements the same policies so the impeachment is a pyrrhic victory.

We won't even go into the COVID lies. How many times did Biden tell you that if you take the shot, you can't catch COVID? Do you still believe him?

Then later, when they start to doubt the validity of these lies they are too embarrassed to admit the lies for looking foolish.

Please tell us exactly what lie you are talking about. Trump says some pretty stupid stuff but the trouble he gets into is not for lying but for saying the "quiet" things that no one admits in public.

This border thing could be fixed in a single afternoon. It only exist, in this moment, to get Trump elected.

Are you a complete idiot? I'm sorry. I said the "quiet" thing. This must be very deep. So Mayorkas is not reporting to Biden. He is reporting to Trump and Mayorkas is telling the border agents to cut the barbed wire so the aliens don't get injured as they enter the country illegally because he wants Trump to get elected???? Wow. Who knew? Who even suspected? The Biden administration even went so far as to bring a lawsuit and the stupid Supremes ruled that the feds could cut the wire. That really fooled me. What a complex plan. But, think about this result though. How about if your HOA said that you MUST leave your house unlocked when you leave it and if you lock it, they will cut off the locks? That is what the Supremes told Texas. Luckily 25 other states stood up finally and offered National Guard support for the border. So, the illegals have largely moved west and are entering through California. They just stopped a group of almost 300 Chinese yesterday. Long walk. Must have been hard holding their breath that long.

@Thales750 I strongly suggest that you don't repeat that last statement to anybody.

You're next argument is going to be they are welcome as long as they as they are here legally. Go ahead use that argument.

The US has the most generous immigration and work visa program of any other country in the world. We accept more refugees than any other country on top of the regular immigration AND we support those refugees so they can assimilate. Immigrants need to be able to support themselves. Without a border, you have no country. We are spending BILLIONS of dollars to defend Ukraine's border and Mayorkas is having our border agents cut the barbed wire that Texas installed so the illegal aliens don't hurt themselves as they break our laws to come here to collect from our welfare system?



.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Come on Doc. existential?

YES, existential. And YES, they are welcome if they come in legally and make themselves subject to our laws - including our tax laws and our immigration quota laws. So yes, I WILL use that argument, and I'm truly sorry if you don't understand it.

 

[Steve R.]

Trump took his lessens from Goebbels and Hitler. Tell big lies and tell them often, never stop telling the lies, and people will believe you.

@Pat Hartman responded.

I'm sure you still believe the Russia, Russia, Russia hoax. The fact that both Hilary Clinton personally and her election campaign were fined over $100,000 for starting the hoax with the bogus Steele dossier can't possibly be true. And yet it is. Google and FB and Twitter, etc. NEVER filter your feeds. They don't suppress people they disagree with which keeps you from seeing actual facts.

The Russia hoax continues to be incrementally disproved as time progresses. It also increasingly identifies that Trump and his associates were targeted by the US government, then under the control of Obama. Based on this increasing evidence, Obama was the Manchurian Candidate and the 2020 election was rigged (election interference misinformation used to denigrate Trump). Biden is carrying these destructive policies forward. Biden and his cohorts are using the power-of-the-state unlawfully to persecute Trump and his associates to remove them from the 2024 presidential election process.

It's unfortunate that much the news media refused to investigate the origin so this story. Just like they failed to investigate the Hunter Biden laptop story, which was not Russian disinformation. Biden has been lying.

Sources: Intel Agencies Told Foreigners To Spy On Trump's 2016 Campaign

Sources say the CIA 'illegally mobilized foreign intelligence agencies to target Trump advisors long before the summer of 2016.'

thefederalist.com

In “CIA Had Foreign Allies Spy on Trump Team, Triggering Russia Collusion Hoax, Sources Say,” journalists Michael Shellenberger, Matt Taibbi, and Alex Gutentag reported that top-line takeaway, along with several other key details. According to the authors, “multiple credible sources,” said that “the United States Intelligence Community (IC), including the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), illegally mobilized foreign intelligence agencies to target Trump advisors long before the summer of 2016.”

Sources also claimed, according to Tuesday’s article, that “President Barack Obama’s CIA Director, John Brennan, had identified 26 Trump associates for the Five Eyes to target.” According to the journalists, a source confirmed the IC had “identified [those associates] as people to ‘bump,’ or make contact with or manipulate,” and claimed the individuals were “targets of our own IC and law enforcement — targets for collection and misinformation.” (emphasis added)

Russia collusion hoax was initiated by the CIA: Michael Shellenberger | Fox News Video

Substack columnist Michael Shellenberger discusses his report on the alleged election interference on 'Jesse Watters Primetime.'

www.foxnews.com

So, That's a New Disturbing Development in the Russian Collusion Saga

townhall.com

 

[Pat Hartman]

Trump Conservatives on the street have destroyed Christianity, and now they are going after Republicans.

Where do you get your news? That is a totally insane comment. On what do you base that opinion, something you saw on SNL?

Trump conservatives get arrested for praying in front of abortion clinics and are convicted and sentenced to 11 years in prison whereas illegal alien street thugs beat up police officers and walk free. No bail. Just come back for your hearing if you feel like it. As they give the media the finger on their way to the bus station so they can get out of town before someone changes their mind.

 

[Thales750]

Where do you get your news? That is a totally insane comment. On what do you base that opinion, something you saw on SNL?

Trump conservatives get arrested for praying in front of abortion clinics and are convicted and sentenced to 11 years in prison whereas illegal alien street thugs beat up police officers and walk free. No bail. Just come back for your hearing if you feel like it. As they give the media the finger on their way to the bus station so they can get out of town before someone changes their mind.

These stories are close to the facts. And I just read multiple articles on both. Some of the articles are from the sources where your kind of news is reported, some where the liberals get theirs. And others that included some of the left out facts The versions you sited was right there among the most from the conservative side.

As usual, there are shades of gray.

It's funny how much Liberals and Trump supporters have in common. They are both almost completely incapable, or at least unwilling, of looking outside the boxes they have been reinforcing these last decades.

Even if your two anecdotal examples were 100 percent factual, which they are not. It would still not paint the whole picture. And yet conservatives, liberals, and Trump lovers continue to push until we are, once again, deciding between the lessor of evils.

You like to call me stupid, I get it that is your way and all, but i bet you don't even know what has been the instrument of all of this descent.

It is without question "Citizens United" and all of the corruption that it harbingered . This is not the first time we have been here. We had a bought and paid for US Government at the end of the 1800s. Luckily some of the old style Republicans got together with some of the Dems and some labor folks and straightened it out.

This corruption will not end as long as we are divided.

 

[Thales750]

YES, existential. And YES, they are welcome if they come in legally and make themselves subject to our laws - including our tax laws and our immigration quota laws. So yes, I WILL use that argument, and I'm truly sorry if you don't understand it.

I had a friend, she was from Germany, educated and multilingual, marries a soldier and moves to the US where she made some babies, got more educated, and went through the process of becoming a American Citizen. Good for her. We are blessed to attract such folks from all over the world.

Juxtapose that with the young man with 2 daughters that comes from a small town, or a big city, in Mexico, not educated, maybe can read Spanish, certainly not English. He is a hard worker raise by good people, most of them Christians, devout and faithful to their wives.

We need their skills, their hard work and their ethics. Sadly, our politicians have been using this for 40 years to divide Americans. We need a more streamlined path to coming here and working. The only reason we don't is because our politicians, and their puppet masters, don't want us to have it. They want this artificial division to fester. i live down here with these people, what you all believe is 180 degrees out of phase with reality.

They come here for $20 an hour to do hard assed labor, to send some money back so their daughters can eat. And, we condemn them for working illegally. What a seriously not funny joke.

Watch this video.

Bush and Reagan

 

[Pat Hartman]

These stories are close to the facts.

What world do you live in? It is not conservatives who are destroying Christianity, it is the progressive wing of the Democrat party which seems currently to be in charge. There are no shades of grey here
1. Conservatives don't believe that abortion is a valid method of birth control. Most are willing to accept it as a necessary evil until some point in the pregnancy were the fetus becomes viable instead of just a "growth". That point of growth/life is being hotly debated around the country with Conservatives being pro-life and the Progressives being abortion in the delivery room.
2. Conservatives are more likely to have a religious affiliation than not.
3. Conservatives believe in marriage and family values
4. Conservatives believe in biology.

The Democrat position on life is - abortion must be legal even when the baby is full term and healthy and is in the birth canal. However, they don't believe in capital punishment. All life is "sacred" except for the unborn.
The Democrat position on religion is - not in my schools, not on my town greens

We do agree that "Citizens United" is as evil a bill as it gets.

We need their skills, their hard work and their ethics. Sadly, our politicians have been using this for 40 years to divide Americans. We need a more streamlined path to coming here and working. The only reason we don't is because our politicians, and their puppet masters, don't want us to have it. They want this artificial division to fester. i live down here with these people, what you all believe is 180 degrees out of phase with reality.

I am not against legal immigration at all. But, we have the most generous immigration policy of any country in the world. I can't find a good chart but it looks like we take in between 1/2 and 1 million temporary workers every year in all the categories. In theory, that number is managed by demand vs availability of US citizens. If they're not doing a good job, you can't blame it on Trump. You need to complain to your representatives in Congress. As to green cards. I think the number is around a million and we naturalize another million every year.

The only visa program I am directly familiar with is the H1b visa program used to bring in technical workers. I can tell you for a fact that this visa program is abused and it puts US citizens out of work because of the loopholes and the way the program is administered. I have personal knowledge of more than one company who laid off their entire IT department and replaced them with busloads of Indian imports. The laid off employees were told to train their replacement or else. That is not the intent of the law but not against the letter of the law. Technically the department was "outsourced" which is not the same as replacing a specific American with a specific foreign national. Disney is one of the companies that did this and so is the Hartford Insurance Group. This was done 100% to reduce costs. American workers are too costly so they are replaced and our Congress writes legislation that allows that to happen.

Just because there are not enough legal immigrants who will work cheap, doesn't mean you get to hire illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants are criminals. They know they are violating our immigration law. Then they work and violate other laws. I don't want them here. They are destroying the fabric of this country. I don't care how "nice" any individual person is. That person is a criminal. If you want more legal immigration organize a march on Washington. If you think it is OK to break immigration laws, what other laws do you think it is OK to break? This is a very slippery slope.

They come here for $20 an hour to do hard assed labor, to send some money back so their daughters can eat. And, we condemn them for working illegally. What a seriously not funny joke.

Laws are laws. Why don't you pay them the $50 per hour you would have to pay an American if you think they deserve it? Easy, you could get an American do do the job for $50 but not for $20. So, you are the one who wants the cheap labor and you are the reason we have this crisis.

 

[pdanes]

In the Election in 2024, Independents will step up and vote for anyone other than Trump. Hard lessons are coming for Republicans that allowed this cult following to override rational thought.

Independents are far more likely to look at results and vote according to those, rather than faithfully sticking to a party. In most elections, people must balance real results, which always have flaws, against promises from the new guy, which always sound better. The upcoming election is one of the few when people will be able to compare actual track records from both presidential candidates IN THE OFFICE for which they are running.

When you compare those, Biden fall so far short it's as if he was not even in the race, but one of those 'special' athletes that are occasionally let onto the field in a real game, while all the players pretend to not be able to perform, so the 'special' child can victoriously carry the ball across the goal line.

 

[Isaac]

I tend to agree with that.

Trump's policies work better than [any] Democrat policies ... Period.

We must recognize the threat of national debt and think of what we are leaving to our children. The Democrats always try to get an easy time of it by just promising to spend more money to give people stuff, Republicans less so.

The people in the 'middle' of the tax issue - meaning MY family, not poor so as to avoid all taxes as half the country does, and not rich enough to hire experts to get me 'out' of taxes - we are paying enormous amounts of tax money. It's time to cut out the frivolous stuff from government spending. I'm doing my taxes and despite having thousands withheld every month for the government, I'll still owe another few thousand, much of it going toward too-big-Democrat-induced government, like free stuff for people who haven't earned it.

The gov is NOT THERE to take care of your every want and need and outcome, it's there to set some rather basic guardrails and boundaries and open up opportunities for YOU to choose to control YOUR destiny, wherein some will always choose poorly and reap poorly, but forcing their outcomes to be better is only a form of robbery from the rest.

No matter how dumb Trump's occasional outbursts are, I'll vote Republican any day of the week. Democrats tend to lead the country in a dozen wrong directions

 

[Pat Hartman]

Independents are far more likely to look at results and vote according to those,

Which is exactly why they are likely to vote for Trump.

People who vote against Trump, vote that way because they don't like his personality. Pretty dumb reason in my opinion. It's like threatening to stick a pencil into your own eye because you don't like Trump's personality without even considering how his policies might benefit you. They never understand that the Democrat policies will always hurt you - unless you are one of the 47% who don't actually pay ANYTHING let alone your fair share.

 

[Steve R.]

Trump took his lessens from Goebbels and Hitler. Tell big lies and tell them often, never stop telling the lies, and people will believe you.

Seems that you neglect and even bigger liar, who unfortunately has the support of most of the media. The gullible public sadly believes Biden's lies.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1758583741184909657

Especially despicable is what Hanson said about the senior Biden using his own son's death for his political benefit.

He lied that Hur brought up his son’s death (“How in the hell dare he raise that?”). In fact, Biden as is his serial wont, raised it, and does on a regular basis, usually deliberately and further lying that his son died while on military duty in Iraq (he died six years subsequently as a civilian in Walter Reed Hospital), and always contorting the death to enhance his own greater sense of grieving.

 

[shoji]

It is really sad to find that some of you veteran commentators, like Pat, Doc Man, and Jon, who give reasonable advices on Access, are on the side of morally collapsed Republicans, and even Trumpian! Any reasonable person knows that Trump is a cheat, pathological liar, and egomaniac con man. It is frightening to think how much harm he as a president will cause to the world.