Riots in Minneapolis

[Jon]

@Isaac I had a quick look at the numbers of people shot to death by police in recent years. Double the number of whites are shot to death than blacks.

Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

The perception is probably that more blacks are shot to death by police than whites, but it is the opposite.

The risk of being shot by police is greater for blacks, but then they are disproportionately involved in violent crime, so you would expect that to be the case. Liberals don't really care about the numbers and statistical proportions, because they have already made up their mind the false idea that police brutality and deaths just target black men and women.

Maybe that is the difference between Republicans and Democrats. A black Republican will look at this through the lens of self accountability and say they have to change themselves, while a black Democrat would look to blame others and the system.

 

[moke123]

@Isaac I had a quick look at the numbers of people shot to death by police in recent years. Double the number of whites are shot to death than blacks.

Whats the percentages of armed vs. unarmed?

 

[Jon]

You tell me. But what is your argument?

 

[moke123]

The protests aren't about justified shootings, Are they? They are about shootings of unarmed people without consequences.
Your cited statistics I gather include both justified and unjustified shootings.

Here's an article detailing some of the issues.

Fatal Police Shootings Of Unarmed Black People Reveal Troubling Patterns

Since 2015, police officers have fatally shot at least 135 unarmed Black people nationwide. The majority of officers were white, and for at least 15 of them, the shootings weren't their first or last.

www.npr.org

 

[Jon]

The protests aren't about justified shootings, Are they? They are about shootings of unarmed people without consequences.

The protests are about stereotyping police as racist towards blacks. What shootings without consequences are you referring to?

If the protests were about shootings of unarmed people, why were there similar protests for the shooting of Breonna Taylor? A police officer was shot and they returned fire. You see, justification has nothing to do with the riots. They are angry groups incited by liberal media propaganda, BLM and hate speech from Democrat leaders.

By unarmed, do you mean no gun, or does it include knives etc?

I've looked at that article but apart from lots of individual cases references, I am not sure what issues you think there are.

Edit: I am all for addressing issues if I see it in the data, because despite what you may think, I am completely open-minded on the issue. At this point, I do not see evidence of bias. All I see is what you would expect to see if blacks are involved in more violent crime than whites. Risk goes up for police and you would expect to see more fatal shootings in the data. The question I would ask is, "Does the number of fatal shootings of blacks outweigh what you would expect given the higher levels of violence?"

 

[Steve R.]

The Laura Ingraham video is now available. Essentially, the only stories reported by the "left leaning" media are those where a Black person has been killed by a White person. Situations, that don't fit that narrative are ignored.

As with Tucker Carlson's monologue, Laura reiterates how the police officer who killed Ashli Babbitt won't be charged, but Kim Potter has been charged. While one example, does not document a trend, it loosely fits the pattern of: "when a White person is unjustly killed by a police officer it is a non-story and the police officer gets off, but if a Black person dies and the police officer is White, then the police officer is charged with murder".

Ingraham: Left, media ignore violence that doesn't fit 'rooted in racism' narrative | Fox News Video

'The Ingraham Angle' blasts the left's selective coverage and response to violent crime in the U.S.

video.foxnews.com

 

[Jon]

Precisely. The liberal media is utterly focused on black victims only. I really don't know how they can be so biased. But then again, if their culture is to cancel all those in disagreement, they are just reinforcing their own echo chamber of beliefs. When they want to bolster their claims of systemic racism, they just want to focus on a small range of statistics to support their position, while ignoring all the others.

For example, blacks are likely to be killed at 3x the rate of whites by police, or something to that effect. But that is all they want to focus on. Thus, racist police brutality. Yet they ignore the hugely disproportionate rates of black violence, murder and ra**, as evidenced by the government statistics. Why? Because it is inconvenient. The data just doesn't fit their narrative, so they ignore it. Disgraceful.

Edit: This is not about hating blacks, just reporting the statistics. If you think reporting statistics is racist, then you are a lost cause and must also believe the Democrat government is racist for providing them.

 

[Isaac]

The protests aren't about justified shootings, Are they? They are about shootings of unarmed people without consequences.

...Except, that's completely untrue.

The fictional BLM narrative and resulting protests took place in great quantity over the 2016 Alton Sterling case - a case where an armed, extremely violent criminal with a VERY long history of violent crime was shot by police. This outrage was completely unwarranted. Sterling's record was pages long and he had a history of being armed and extremely violent. Police knew this when they confronted him on his street vending corner, and were quite justified in their eventual shooting. The media framed him as a "gentle giant", which was incredibly untrue, to the point of being absurd.

You are also wrong about simply framing it as "unarmed people without consequences". No, the protests are only about when the victim is black.

The case of Dylan Noble is an archetypal case of what would have been a sympathetic, hero-victim if he had been black. He was completely unarmed, his only threat was slowly walking toward police (while unarmed) as a 19 year old kid, he had committed no felony and had no record that I can recall. His last words were muttered as he took a single step forward toward police, in typical troubled teen lingo "I hate my life". And was shot several times - including once with a shotgun, while lying flat on his back having already been shot twice. This case received very little media attention and no widespread outrage. Dylan was white.

There was a case of a Hispanic man who was shot by California police. He was suicidal and at the time of the police shooting, had actually already shot himself in the head(!), but police noted his hand was still technically on the side of his firearm, which was dangling from his hand at that time. No major media coverage hardly, no outrage. No one even remembers this case, for the most part.

Research has actually shown that white victims of equally seemingly oppressive and unwarranted police brutality receive approximately 10% of the media coverage (read, outrage) as black victims. Therefore, it is not true that the protests are simply about unjustified shootings of unarmed people without consequences.

It is also untrue that protests are about no consequences, since thousands of buildings and business have been destroyed in the name of protests relating to cases that ARE having consequences. Derek Chauvin is on trial. Kimberly Potter is facing charges.

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

This ain't going to help!

 

[Jon]

Remember how the media was portraying George Floyd as a guy on he mend, where he was rebuilding his life and starting afresh, away from the criminal past? Well, I counted the number of crimes during that tragic event last year: forgery, driving while on drugs, possession of drugs, resisting arrest. That's 4 crimes right there. Is that what they call on the mend?

 

[Isaac]

This ain't going to help!

I agree!

Law enforcement has actually stated that there is a lot more context to the situation, that the man (who was pushed) had been involved in "several other incidents" in the neighborhood just prior to being accosted, and was probably being asked to leave for good reason.

Despite that, legally speaking, there seems to be no justification for the physical push in that moment. And the video (which doesn't show the incidents that led up to this) doesn't help.

 

[Isaac]

Do you see how ridiculous this all is, though? That video went "viral". Let's stop and think about that for a moment. What if we could take videos of the other , say, 200 incidents of physical violence that took place just as legitimately, on the exact same day, with colors going the other direction and a minority as the aggressor? Would they all go viral? Does each incident matter just as much? Does each victim matter just as much?

This country is, unfortunately, chock-full of crime. Full to the brim, and running over. We're all fawning over a video that shows one man push another man. On the same day, people were beat up and shot all over the country, with most aggressors being POC.

The best perspective to allow you to make good policy decisions is to use truth as a starting point.

 

[Jon]

And the video (which doesn't show the incidents that led up to this) doesn't help.

This.

Imagine if he punched the guys girlfriend in the face, preceding this. We don't know. No context, no conclusion to be made.

 

[Jon]

Just had a thought. Could this be a setup? I just read it is a gated community, so does that mean they are trespassing? I don't know how it works over there. But for activists who want to create trouble out of nothing, could the black guy have been wandering about harassing people in an effort to deliberately provoke and get a video clip? Think I heard the word harass in the video. No idea if it happened in this case.

Remember Smollett?

Edit: I just read this:

Sheriff Lott said the other man in the video had been involved in other incidents in the neighborhood in the days leading up to the video but said that 'none of them justified the assault that occurred.'

I wonder what those other incidents were. No doubt they will come out. Notice incidents is plural. Is he out to cause trouble? I would like to see what gets revealed.

 

[Isaac]

Just had a thought. Could this be a setup? I just read it is a gated community, so does that mean they are trespassing? I don't know how it works over there. But for activists who want to create trouble out of nothing, could the black guy have been wandering about harassing people in an effort to deliberately provoke and get a video clip? Think I heard the word harass in the video. No idea if it happened in this case.

Possibly.

Remember Smollet?

And Pool Patrol Paula, from a few years ago? BBQ Becky? Long before the term "Karen" was instituted in America's zeitgeist, those cases became famous in an attempt to demonstrate a supposed ever-increasing trend of POC living their every day lives and just being unable to.

In both cases, especially in BBQ Becky's case, the incident actually involved POC actually doing or being reasonably suspected of doing something illegal--and in fact, in BBQ Becky's case, the police actually agreed, and ended up asking the barbecuers to leave the area where they weren't supposed to be BBQ'ing, just like "Becky" had done. Both lost their jobs and career, and received outsized media coverage. Fake outrage and cancel culture was born.

 

[Jon]

I hadn't heard of those cases. It is only in recent years that I have become interested in US politics. But until we get more details about what these other incidents were, it is impossible to judge why the guy was trying to evict the other guy.

Edit: The video goes viral because it is a white guy pushing a black guy. But the crime statistics shows whites are much more likely to be victims of violent crime from blacks than the other way around. But with the 100% media bias, no one cares about that. Just keep things in perspective about what is really going on out there.

Here are the stats. Notice that for simple assault, there are roughly twice as many assaults by whites as blacks, but whites are about 60% of the population and blacks 13%. Therefore, blacks assault at over twice the rate of whites, if my maths serves me correctly. But let's ignore all that because we have a video clip.

Source: https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/ucr.asp?table_in=2

 

[Isaac]

I hadn't heard of those cases. It is only in recent years that I have become interested in US politics. But until we get more details about what these other incidents were, it is impossible to judge why the guy was trying to evict the other guy.

Agreed.

As a fair minded person, I am interested in what happened prior that made the military man so upset. From a moral and common sense perspective, that may or may not provide some justification.

From a legal perspective, he probably had no right to touch the other guy's person at that moment, and ought to suffer whatever the fair punishment is for a very minor assault (causing reasonable expectation of unwanted touching) and battery (the actual contact). If, under any other circumstances, he would lose his job for shoving another man and not out of self defense, then that should happen here too - only if that is a true statement.

Unfortunately for him, he's likely to suffer a lot more than that in the coming months. Aggressive crowds already took over his homefront.

Ironic, isn't it? When we talk about "mobs" from the 60's, we clearly understood they were wrong, when gathering in lynch-mode for a perceived and/or relatively minor offense. Times have changed ...

 

[Jon]

His home has already been vandalised.

 

[Jon]

But let's be clear. This is just the start. Wait until the end of the George Floyd trial. Unless he is not convicted on the highest charge, I predict nationwide riots. Any reason to riot and BLM are on it. They are trigger happy. I hope I am wrong.

The US is descending into anarchy.

 

[Isaac]

The US is descending into anarchy.

It's very sad and depressing. It's bad enough that there's tons of crime, and too much anarchy. But there's one thing that's even worse than that: Selective prosecution based on political context. Now that's scary.

Not only do we have anarchy situations (Jan 6th, BLM) but with Biden's DOJ in charge, we also have prosecution geared toward making the offenders suffer the most who are not fitting nicely in with the approved Democrat narrative. Ashli Babbit tresspassing=killed, no outrage, no information, no prosecution. Daunte fleeing police=killed, much outrage, much prosecution.