Shootings in Tucson

Limiting access to handguns through whatever method will not eliminate murders and suicides, that is a given. Yes, there will always be illegal firearms to be found. Yes, you can kill someone without using a firearm. But the incidence of deaths by crimes "of the moment" - also known as crimes of passion would be greatly reduced, as would incidence of death by suicide. Why? Because alternative weapons just aren't as lethal as a firearm. Yes, you can kill someone with a knife but it takes a much more concentrated effort to do so. Same thing for an axe, a hammer, or any other weapon. But just because we cannot eliminate ALL murders and suicides does not mean that we should not choose to reduce the incidence as much as possible by putting strict controls on the weapon of choice in most cases, the handgun.
 
ChipperT said:
Limiting access to handguns through whatever method will not eliminate murders and suicides, that is a given. Yes, there will always be illegal firearms to be found. Yes, you can kill someone without using a firearm. But the incidence of deaths by crimes "of the moment" - also known as crimes of passion would be greatly reduced, as would incidence of death by suicide. Why? Because alternative weapons just aren't as lethal as a firearm. Yes, you can kill someone with a knife but it takes a much more concentrated effort to do so. Same thing for an axe, a hammer, or any other weapon. But just because we cannot eliminate ALL murders and suicides does not mean that we should not choose to reduce the incidence as much as possible by putting strict controls on the weapon of choice in most cases, the handgun.
Click to expand...

But at the risk of increasing other types of crime when only the criminals will have such weapons? No thanks, I feel much safer knowing that they don't know I won't have a gun.
 
Vassago said:
But at the risk of increasing other types of crime when only the criminals will have such weapons? No thanks, I feel
much safer knowing that they don't know I won't have a gun.
Click to expand...

I have been unable to find a single study that supports an increase in "other types of crimes" when handguns are tightly controlled. Indeed, experience shows otherwise. If what you aver were true, Canada would be a hotbed of criminal violence but the statistics show a much lower rate of violent crime than in the US. Can you point me to countries (with facts) who have strict handgun controls where the violent crime rate is significantly greater than in the U.S.?
 
ChipperT said:
I have been unable to find a single study that supports an increase in "other types of crimes" when handguns are tightly controlled. Indeed, experience shows otherwise. If what you aver were true, Canada would be a hotbed of criminal violence but the statistics show a much lower rate of violent crime than in the US. Can you point me to countries (with facts) who have strict handgun controls where the violent crime rate is significantly greater than in the U.S.?
Click to expand...

Within the US, there is a direct relationship between more guns equals less random victom crime.
 
ChipperT said:
I have been unable to find a single study that supports an increase in "other types of crimes" when handguns are tightly controlled. Indeed, experience shows otherwise. If what you aver were true, Canada would be a hotbed of criminal violence but the statistics show a much lower rate of violent crime than in the US. Can you point me to countries (with facts) who have strict handgun controls where the violent crime rate is significantly greater than in the U.S.?
Click to expand...

The UK has a higher per capita rate of robbery, burglary, and car-jackings. Even Total Crime is higher per capita in the UK than here, although not by much. Murder is higher here, but again, that's more of a planned crime with a planned target than a random act of violence.
 
Within the US there is a direct relationship between gun ownership and people being shot.


Hey its great being able to state 1 liners. :D

Brian
 
Brianwarnock said:
Vass that link post should be in the joke thread

Brian
Click to expand...

How do you figure? Do you have any evidence to discredit it? If I do a search for these statistics, I find other articles talking about the increase in random crime rate since the gun ban in many countries, including the UK.
 
I'm not argueing about UK v US crime, but the stats in that thread are based on each countries perception of what is a crime thus making it of no use.

I've seen stats showing that hot burglary is far less in the US than many places because the residents may be armed, and I can accept that, its the carrying of guns away from the home that is worrying.

Brian
 
I also think that the crime rate would be increaseing whether there was a gun ban or not, we just seem to be living in a more violent time, in my opinion due to wishy washy liberals in parliament and the courts.

Brian
 
ChipperT said:
Can you point me to countries (with facts) who have strict handgun controls where the violent crime rate is significantly greater than in the U.S.?
Click to expand...

I can point you to facts that show concealed carry permits lead to less crime: http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdgcon.html

I have guns and ammunition. If any of you would like to confiscate my guns and ammunition, please stand in a single file line. I will be happy to surrender my ammunition to you, at a distance, one round at a time. When I run out of ammunition to surrender, I will happily turn over my weapon and allow you to take possession of it butt / stock first via your forehead. If you fail to retain possession of the weapon properly, I will try again until you can no longer accept the transfer or there is no more of you in line.

My guns are not just for hunting. They work well when an intruder in my home has a severe lead deficiency, a thug on decides to attack me or someone I 'm with or a member of law enforcement decides the law no longer applies to them and they are inclined to oppress my family or myself. And Yes, the Supreme court has upheld the last one so you libtard anti-gun, law enforcement can do no wrong idoits can shut it. I know good cops, I have taken a hit for an off duty cop who was recognized by someone he arrested so No, I am not against all law enforcement, just the crooked ones.
In addition to the right to free speech, I have the right to keep and bear arms. This right was secured to ensure the people were able and ready to defend the nation from any enemy, whether it is a foreign government, our a domestic attack.
This attack in Tuscon was not a focused political assasination attempt; it was a rampage by a sick individual. If more people carried their guns, the bastard could have been turned into swiss cheese before he got a round off.
 
Insane_ai said:
I can point you to facts that show concealed carry permits lead to less crime: http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdgcon.html

I have guns and ammunition. If any of you would like to confiscate my guns and ammunition, please stand in a single file line. I will be happy to surrender my ammunition to you, at a distance, one round at a time. When I run out of ammunition to surrender, I will happily turn over my weapon and allow you to take possession of it butt / stock first via your forehead.
Click to expand...

Are you saying you would kill someone if they tried to take your gun? Then if the ammo ran out you would beat their head in with the gun stock?

If so, that is disgusting.

Col
 
Not only is he a violent idiot, he has poor grammar and spelling skills as well.
 
Insane_ai said:
I can point you to facts that show concealed carry permits lead to less crime: http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdgcon.html
Click to expand...

And by the way, the site you cite does not support you statement. The best it does, and this over and over, is to state that "the evidence strongly suggests that an increase in concealed weapons permits does not increase violent crime". That is a far cry from a definitive statement and an even farther cry from the claim that an increase in concealed weapons reduces the incidence of voilent crimes. More drivel, less fact as usual.
 
Brianwarnock said:
Within the US there is a direct relationship between gun ownership and people being shot.


Hey its great being able to state 1 liners. :D

Brian
Click to expand...

I know Brian, but it is true. This is certainly not scientific, nor is the correlation conclusive. But DC has much more crime than its neighbor Virginia. We (Virginia) have among the most lenient gun laws in America; whereas in the District of Columbia, guns are banned.
 
Last edited:
Davep said:
Are you saying you would kill someone if they tried to take your gun? Then if the ammo ran out you would beat their head in with the gun stock?
Click to expand...

Do you guys have certain folks in the UK that are a national embarrassment? Like, every time they're in the news you just groan thinking "Wow, this person is from the same country as I am."


Here's a video you'll enjoy Col:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLzo9pOXa-s
 
ChipperT: Did you actually read the site? ..."John Lott and David Mustard, in connection with the University of Chicago Law School, examining crime statistics from 1977 to 1992 for all U.S. counties, concluded that the thirty-one states allowing their residents to carry concealed, had significant reductions in violent crime."

In response to your comment:

"Not only is he a violent idiot, he has poor grammar and spelling skills as well."

Try again genius, the spelling and grammer are faultless. You must be another one of those left wingnuts who can only make unintelligent and baseless claims to smear someone.

DaveP: Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. It's not disgusting, it standing up for my rights rather than becoming a sheep.
 
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