Shootings in US schools

[qailoh]

We've posted many constructive methods here in the past...

...and obviously they aren't working in the UK either (do I really need to post the link to the UK 15 year old who was killed with a MAC-10 again?) Unfortunately, your 'wisdom' seems to be of similiar quality to "guns are designed to kill people, automobiles are not..."

 

[Rich]

...and obviously they aren't working in the UK either (do I really need to post the link to the UK 15 year old who was killed with a MAC-10 again?) Unfortunately, your 'wisdom' seems to be of similiar quality to "guns are designed to kill people, automobiles are not..."

Don't compare us to you, gun deaths here are rare

 

[dan-cat]

When people are killed in automobile accidents isn't it .. well an accident , whereas when they are shot isn't that kinda deliberate?

Brian

I'd like to take this point up if I may

When looking at the net result (death tolls), is intent really that important? I know when I pull out of Gatwick, London I'd feel safer on a nascar circuit. What is the difference if an automobile is not designed to kill, if it kills anyway, to a much greater extent than guns, because of its wreckless use?

Are guns safer in this respect because their lethal qualities are far more obvious to the general public than an automobile? Please discuss.

 

[Rich]

I know when I pull out of Gatwick, London I'd feel safer on a nascar circuit.

That's only because you drive on the wrong side back home

 

[dan-cat]

That's only because you drive on the wrong side back home

I can never understand why you Brits are in such a hurry on the roads. It's not as if you've got very far to go

 

[Rich]

Cockneys like speed

 

[ColinEssex]

When looking at the net result (death tolls), is intent really that important? I know when I pull out of Gatwick, London I'd feel safer on a nascar circuit.

If you think the M23 is like a NASCAR circuit then all I can say is your NASCAR is very feeble, try the M25 on a friday rush hour if you want some fun

Mind you, NASCAR is feeble because your drivers only drive flat out and never have to turn right and left - just left turns only, even then they still can't manage it and hit the wall.

Col

 

[Rich]

NASCAR supporters are Bush supporters, aren't they?

 

[ColinEssex]

You people amaze me.
Everyday more people are killed by people driving automobiles in this country(USA) than are shot by people with guns.

We are aware of the stats - but it still remains that an average of 82 people in the USA die every day by being shot.

Thats a jumbo jet full dead every 4 days

Col

 

[ColinEssex]

NASCAR supporters are Bush supporters, aren't they?

Yes, the southern rednecks in Georgia etc. support Bush passionately and religion and NASCAR. Shows how out of touch the southerners are

Col

 

[Brianwarnock]

I'd like to take this point up if I may

When looking at the net result (death tolls), is intent really that important? I know when I pull out of Gatwick, London I'd feel safer on a nascar circuit. What is the difference if an automobile is not designed to kill, if it kills anyway, to a much greater extent than guns, because of its wreckless use?

Are guns safer in this respect because their lethal qualities are far more obvious to the general public than an automobile? Please discuss.

I’m having difficulty understanding how people cannot see the difference in somebody being deliberately shot and being killed in a motor accident, even if by a reckless driver, the next step is being shot is no different than dying of a heart attack.

I agree that we need to tackle the carnage on the roads, but each time car makers make the cars safer the drivers use that safety to drive more recklessly, so remove the airbag from in front of the driver and replace it with a battering ram that shots out if he/she hits anything front end on at over say 20mph, or in the case of anything bigger than a family saloon, make it a spike. OK there will be some losers but that’s life.

As for the guns its not owning them that’s the problem and we know from experience here that banning the populace from owning them does not remove them from the streets, in the US case you have no chance, but that does not excuse the easy going attitude of so many posters. You need stricter laws about carrying them outside the home, maybe better and more readily enforced stop and search laws, as do we, with severe penalties for carrying.

Ok there are a couple of suggestions.

Brian

 

[Pauldohert]

You people amaze me.
Everyday more people are killed by people driving automobiles in this country(USA) than are shot by people with guns.

Find something else to [b/]itch about.

More people die of lung cancer than breast cancer - on this logic breast cancer isn't something to bitch about!

 

[ColinEssex]

Bri - you're on a loser here mate.

The US posters can't see the difference between deaths by guns and cars. Both are glorified in the USA so it's only natural.

To us it's horrific that 82 people are killed in the US each day by being shot. But to them it's just a risk they've grown used to and complaicent to. Even the more christian US posters have said they will happily gun down a burglar.

Col

 

[Pauldohert]

Even the more christian US posters have said they will happily gun down a burglar.

So would I.

I still think gun ownership is stupid though - cos if the burglar thought it likely I was armed - I am sure he would be too - and I'm sure h'ed think less of shooting me than I would in shooting him.

 

[Brianwarnock]

Whilst leaning towards agreeing with you Paul stats don't support us.

By comparing criminal victimization surveys from Britain and the Netherlands (countries having low levels of gun ownership) with the U.S., Florida State University criminologist Gary Kleck determined that if the U.S. were to have similar rates of "hot" burglaries as these other nations, there would be more than 450,000 additional burglaries per year where the victim was threatened or assaulted. (Britain and the Netherlands have a "hot" burglary rate near 45% versus just under 13% for the U.S., and in the U.S. a victim is threatened or attacked 30% of the time during a "hot" burglary.)

Brian

 

[dan-cat]

I’m having difficulty understanding how people cannot see the difference in somebody being deliberately shot and being killed in a motor accident, even if by a reckless driver, the next step is being shot is no different than dying of a heart attack.

Well Bri, I actually have to agree with you. The argument that gun crime is somehow less of a problem because there is a bigger problem, isn't very convincing.

As for the guns its not owning them that’s the problem and we know from experience here that banning the populace from owning them does not remove them from the streets, in the US case you have no chance, but that does not excuse the easy going attitude of so many posters.

But removing flippancy is nigh on impossible without personal experience. Most of the people on the M23 and M25 (yes I've been on that one too) wouldn't be driving like that if they had been involved in a fatal wreck. Gas prices are exorbitant too but no-ones reducing their revs as far as I can tell.

What does it take to get the everyday individual to be less 'easy going' with safety?

You need stricter laws about carrying them outside the home, maybe better and more readily enforced stop and search laws, as do we, with severe penalties for carrying.

Cops get very tough if you're found carrying, but this approach is lampooned by many on these forums.

 

[GaryPanic]

The guns (in the US) are out there , how would you remove them, almost impossible the horse has bolted on this one, even if you were to get 1 state to try and be gun free , given the land mass of the states it would be impossible to implement (poss typo).
should the US get sick of the needless deaths by the nut cases with guns then a long term solution would be needed, but I think I have mentioned in this post (maybe another- the pig one) its not the country folk who are the problem its the townies , with a culture of gangster rap etc...
it might be interesting to have a breakdown of these deaths as an average

what % black, what white % what age range , robberies , drugs related etc

I know when I went to Philadephia (I've bound to have spelt that one wrong) there were areas I would not of been happy to walk in, and even people I know who live on the outskirts of Philie call it killadephia.


This could be a cultural problem , and to this only the people living in these areas can resolve it . end of the day its the will of the will of the people that one hopes will shine through .

To compare deaths by motor accidents to gun killings does not stack up - one is accidential(mostly) the other pre-meditated (nearly always)
some bright spark came up with -if everyone was armed there would not be a problem ... this is incredible stupid to say the least , I could accidently stand on your toes and you are having a bad day so before you have the chance to be rational you pull your gun a bang...,
also what about the percentage of people who are slightly nuttie and start seeing green goblins everywhere ..bang.bang


then theres the drunks (we have 'em too ) shooting off just for the hell of it .
Guns and people are not generally a good mix, but the problem is acedemic (typo-again) its too late guns are out there.

they are a bad thing and anything that can be done to reduce there numbers I am in favour for..
THere are some State side who see nothing wrong with Guns and those tat live in the sticks are probably ok and right with this, however the townies have no excuse, unless its to protect themselves from other gun users - which highlights the point .. here I go again rambling on

g

 

[ColinEssex]

Cops get very tough if you're found carrying, but this approach is lampooned by many on these forums.

How come US posters here ram it down our throats that it's in the constitution that its cool to carry a gun? Either it's ok or it isn't

Here's me thinking [almost] everyone in the USA walks round armed like a modern day Wyatt Earp.

Col

 

[GaryPanic]

Colin,
its because you watch too much TV.
vast majority are well balanced (well for Americans -only kidding) and "normal" people who pretty much like a beer or two .. its cos the newspapers and TV don't acutal see the point in reporting on a normal person . it has to be a gangbanger (american version , not the UK/Euorpe version)

the news would be pretty poor if it came out that Auntie Betty cat had kittens - just does cut the mustard as Auntie Betty shoot 2 thungs for being stupid.

so our view of the states is disjointed , the news is generally bad (same here)
g

 

[ColinEssex]

Colin,
its because you watch too much TV.
vast majority are well balanced (well for Americans -only kidding) and "normal" people who pretty much like a beer or two .. its cos the newspapers and TV don't acutal see the point in reporting on a normal person . it has to be a gangbanger (american version , not the UK/Euorpe version)

the news would be pretty poor if it came out that Auntie Betty cat had kittens - just does cut the mustard as Auntie Betty shoot 2 thungs for being stupid.

so our view of the states is disjointed , the news is generally bad (same here)
g

Yes yes, I'm aware of that Gary - I put my second comment in just to get a reaction [nice that you reacted ]

I'm more interested in Daniella's comment where the "cops get tough" - how can they if it's ok by law to carry a gun

Col