Shootings in US schools

[GaryPanic]

You knew I would "Bite"

 

[dan-cat]

Yes yes, I'm aware of that Gary - I put my second comment in just to get a reaction [nice that you reacted ]

I'm more interested in Daniella's comment where the "cops get tough" - how can they if it's ok by law to carry a gun

Col

The gun cannot be loaded, the gun cannot be concealed. Hand guns require registration and a permit. If you get pulled over and you don't tell them what you're carrying straight away, then they will get tough. Your TV shows probably film an individual breaking one or more of these rules.

 

[ColinEssex]

The gun cannot be loaded, the gun cannot be concealed.

So it's ok to walk down the street wielding a Magnum as long as it's empty?

Hand guns require registration and a permit.

So rifles don't? Can you walk down the street wielding a loaded rifle?

Col

 

[ColinEssex]

You knew I would "Bite"

You've been to the USA - it's obvious

Col

 

[Rich]

The gun cannot be loaded, the gun cannot be concealed. Hand guns require registration and a permit. If you get pulled over and you don't tell them what you're carrying straight away, then they will get tough. Your TV shows probably film an individual breaking one or more of these rules.

Well that's odd, we've had Americans on here justifying the need to carry a concealed weapon and don't certain states actually promote it?

 

[GaryPanic]

yeah.. nice place (except for the Yanks...only kidding)
been there and so far only met 2 complete arses- the rest were really very nice - diffent but nice - just as messed up as us Brits but on different things

Good example would be cornflakes
a lot of choice 20 brands - but all were crap - and its like that for a lot of things, cheese was a good one - American cheese is a bit boring- dull.. its mass produced and there no love in it, you can buy foreign cheese there like cheddar, (english,)and other cheeses french, dutch but the american cheese tasted processed a bit soapy.

Not that everything is 'orrible, Cinnie buns are really nice (I have bound to have spelt this one wrong) they are 1000 calories just to look at them - a bit like a chelsea bun - but better

THey have fast food down to a Tee, but quality meals ermmm.. not really- or it coud be just my taste buds didn't like it -

I did see that if you wanted quality food , there were a few good suppliers of meat (beef, hams etc) but these were mail order and they looked top notch ..
never have bacon in the States - that is a joke - and the tea is not much better, the coffee on the other is ok

take aways are weird
Indians (curries) are almost non-existiant , they seem to think that they are smelly and you eat the food you end up being smelly - I think that this is going to take time to get accross to them that curries are magic - not the blow your head of types .

Still like the people, I must admit there is a line to be drawn on the americans - into a couple of groups - those that travel and those that don't the ones who travel are far more approachable and open to new ideas those who don't are closed minds , you might as well talk to a wall

and i am afraid to say there is a black line as well
those who are educated are really nice,easy to talk to and a pleasure to be with (99.9%)_ and those who aren't educated are pretty arrogant , the world owes them a income, you must meet them at their level , talk in there langauge - and thats a shame, I would like to feel that i can walk in any part of the UK , irrespective of my colour and be accepted as I would accept anyone .. but thats not the case in parts of the cities in the US

 

[Brianwarnock]

Well that's odd, we've had Americans on here justifying the need to carry a concealed weapon and don't certain states actually promote it?

I remember one poster saying that he was licensed to carry a concealed weapon, don't remember any more.

Brian

 

[Brianwarnock]

Agree with much of what you say Gary except that in all races I think that the line, if one has to be drawn , is to do with education rather than travel.( I take it by travel you mean outside of the USA).

I also think the coffee is a bit thin , no wonder they keep refilling for free.

Never had a carry out but have eaten in some good restaurants, but don't ask me to name them as I haven't a clue, and I don't do curries these days.

Brian

 

[Brianwarnock]

Gary I forgot this

I would like to feel that i can walk in any part of the UK , irrespective of my colour and be accepted as I would accept anyone .. but thats not the case in parts of the cities in the US

I doubt if this applies in the UK either.

Brian

 

[Pauldohert]

Whilst leaning towards agreeing with you Paul stats don't support us.


Quote:
By comparing criminal victimization surveys from Britain and the Netherlands (countries having low levels of gun ownership) with the U.S., Florida State University criminologist Gary Kleck determined that if the U.S. were to have similar rates of "hot" burglaries as these other nations, there would be more than 450,000 additional burglaries per year where the victim was threatened or assaulted. (Britain and the Netherlands have a "hot" burglary rate near 45% versus just under 13% for the U.S., and in the U.S. a victim is threatened or attacked 30% of the time during a "hot" burglary.)

Brian

In what way do those stats not support our leaning?

Are the stats trying to show - that becasue of guns - hot burlaries are less likely?

I bet if you look a little further - though your chances of being in are lower - your chances of being killed by the burlglar are higher, also the chances of you killing the burglar are higher.

In this country - those with guns are far more likely to be shot dead. Guns just escalate a situation to a fatal conclusion.

 

[GaryPanic]

Gary I forgot this



I doubt if this applies in the UK either.

Brian

I can walk around London no problems - not too sure about up North - went round B'ham without any bother, I don't think its a colour problem in the UK (or I hope its not) might be me being niave (?), went and saw a cricket match west Indies verus the rest of the world where I was outnumbered 20-30 to 1 by Indians/Pakistanines (I hope I've spelt that one right?) - and walked back to the tube station about 3 miles - not a problem and I did not feel threatend or uncomfortable -

would I do this in Dudley/Bradford - I think so , I might be the only whitey there, but so what .

As to "Black" people (If I have upset someone by this word apoligses in advance ) . I have not come across one who is touchie or arse-y about their orgins - most have been proud to be British and proud of their black history

I have not heard of one who has raised the black card -
I am black and my ansetors were slaves you own me something
or your are racists and keeping the black man down
That does not mean there is no racisim -wether it is deliberate or accidential

I work in an office where one of my fellow workers - cannot see that a black women could be attractive to a non black person - (It was some actress forget her name - but she was drop dead gourgous (?))-- and he could not see it and gave me a funny look when I said she was stunning, now I know this person very well, and he is not racist, - well not in his action but in his inaction possibly .


I would like to think that this sort of thinking is disappearing, but maybe I am being a bit of a dreamer - accepting people for who they are rather than the colour of there skin - I meet someone and if they are an arse then I'll treat em as such , if there ok nice , etc then thats how I treat them

ever dealt with South Africanians , they are rude but you can be rude back to them (I am talking about white South Africanians) and they cannot see that being an arse will mean you get treat as one

here I go again rambling on .....

 

[qailoh]

I’m having difficulty understanding how people cannot see the difference in somebody being deliberately shot and being killed in a motor accident, even if by a reckless driver, the next step is being shot is no different than dying of a heart attack.

We can see the difference, I just brought up the traffic stats to point out that there are statistically a lot more accidental deaths than intended ones, and realistically, the accidental ones are something we can effectively do something about.

As for the guns its not owning them that’s the problem and we know from experience here that banning the populace from owning them does not remove them from the streets, in the US case you have no chance, but that does not excuse the easy going attitude of so many posters. You need stricter laws about carrying them outside the home, maybe better and more readily enforced stop and search laws, as do we, with severe penalties for carrying.

Ok there are a couple of suggestions.

At least somone's trying to take a realistic proactive approach. I'd add that a more thorough background check, competency testing and basic firearms safety/proficiency ought to be part of the deal before being allowed to carry.

I remember one poster saying that he was licensed to carry a concealed weapon, don't remember any more.

Brian

I'm licenced to carry. Background check=no felony convictions. I have been stopped by the police while carrying (I looked like "someone they were looking for"), the cops did not draw weapons on me. The first thing you do in that situation is tell them you're licenced, show ID and whatnot. Do I really have to add that to be not committing a crime at the time is a given? Never had any trouble with the police on that issue.

 

[GaryPanic]

With regards to Stats especially these stats
you can mix and match to get the result you want .. but in the end 86 deaths per day against how many in a year in the UK - does not matter how you cut it. also what about muggins
guns lead to death that is there sole purpose .. i have a gun there for I am prepared to shoot you - otherwise why get one - to defend myself - which means that you are prepared to use it otherwise get a toy gun .

no I am afraid that this arguement does not carry much weight in the UK/Europe

where the lack of guns can be seen reflexed in the lower gun death rate per million... terefore if you want lower death rates remove the gun- (too late state side where probably for every legal gun there is 10 illegal ones )

this argument seems to be going round in circles - and the gun lobby supporters will not move and those anti gun lobbiers(?) are up against it
the consititution is written in a way that can be read with 2 meaning (like most rules/laws) open to interpretation - can you imagine the work that would have to be done to remove guns form households

population of the US est 300million + (just a guess) average 1 home each
a good 4 -5 hours search each house by two or more people , and even this would not stop it , as people would bury them in the garden or something .

no they are there , there is nothing that us Europeans can do about this other than have a really good moan, let the americans kill each other , if they cannot see that it is the guns that are the problem - ( agian - I'd like to point out its the townies that end up shooting people the country folk seem to be more balanced when it comes to guns/firearms- must be the inbreeding- only kidding)

however the americans who premote guns and there right to bear arms - I am afraid will get a rough ride from Europeans(main the Brits) on this point

Those who know me, know that I am not anti-american , so this is not a poke at the Yanks - just an obervation - slight basis in its opion granted but i'd like to think a balanced view

 

[voidcranium]

Even the more christian US posters have said they will happily gun down a burglar.

Col

What would you do if you woke up and a burglar was stealing from you?
Give him a cup of tea?

 

[Newman]

I think that the lines are where you put them yourself. If you are scared of or condescendent with a group, might it be blacks, not educated or even French speakers , you are going to give the feeling that you don't want to know about them. In return, they will scared you even more or they will act like you don't belong. We got to be open minded.

Just in this forum, I've been told that French speakers are snob. I've heard that Americans are violent. I've heard that amateurs are not receptive. All this is only partially true, but we just want to see what comes to eye and don't want to see what's behind.

You may feel that I am snob. Because in my culture, we have learned to do our best to give a good first impression. In yours, you have learned to act more natural and relax and that makes you look neglect to our eyes. But, if you come to talk to me even though I seem snob, the first impression done, we get more relax and get closer to you, and you seem less neglect since you don't give the impression that you don't care.

Traveling may help understand the others, but that is only partially true. If you go to New-York with a condescendent attitude, you will feel like the Americans are weird towards you and they will feel like you are weird toward them. But, if you go there with an open mind and really want to learn why they act as they do (or seems to do), you would understand why and get the feeling that they are not as you taught they were.

But none has to travel to experiment this. How do you act when you come accross elder or youngster, rich or begger, a man in suit and tie or a punk with pierced tongue in the street of your home town? I dare every one to go ask "What time is it?" to a gang of punks. You'd find out that they would tell you the time and, if you say "Thank you!", they will even say "You're welcome!" (or at least a nice "Uh huh") But, NOooo, we are to much affraid that they could spit in our face. Well believe it or not, they will spit in your face only if you walk by them to ask someone else a little further while you could have ask them.

I was very poor when I was young. Now, I am more than confortable and hang out with some rich folks. I speak French, but I hang out here in this British forum and lived in English speaking places for months. I was young, and now... Well I am still pretty young in comparison with some of you.
Two words... Open mind!!!

 

[Rich]

What would you do if you woke up and a burglar was stealing from you?
Give him a cup of tea?

Yes, piping hot and in the face......

 

[GaryPanic]

Newman -

much of what you say is valid and I agree with the gist of it, i would be happy to ask a punk - pink hair pins through his/lips tatto-ed to the hilt - gay black/white whatever for the time of day or directions .. although appearances do give an impression - its acutal talking to someone that's important - I have to do a bit of sales, and you have to get to know people- make that impression - now i cannot do that in writing (you've all seen my spelling - lol) but get me on a phone or faced to face . i make that impression - whether to be tongue in cheek, or a bit snoby (?) - i have people phone me up after 6-7 months after i have met them - I have suppliers thank me, even though i don't use them - its how you(not you specifially-as you come across as a nice guy (for a Candian -lol) present yourselves ..

as to being a bit of a snob , this may be a Brit hangover - i know that when people first met each other they are more likely to be formal until they know where they stand ...

State side is probably the same but politeness there is more relaxed/different/comes across falsely -- not a poke at the yanks - just the way it comes across .

the phrase "Have a nice day" - really grates on my nerves (probably just me) - its flat souless a corporate thing a nothing through in at the end ..

i like a bit more interaction - a laugh a giggle - some humor the person serving me is human - i want human responses-

a joke while food shopping - seems like nothing - but passes the day

i give you a good example
last weekend , in the queue was a lady buying her food for the week, and she had bough 2 melons., well i chipped in and said to her and the till assistant - love bunch of Melons- which can be constructed to mean she had a nice chest - but done tongue in cheek- had 3 of laughing - and brought few more smiles to the people who had overheard this .

i have had some till operators also do some one lines to me ..and it was great , whether we talk about the footie or the weather - its more personal

went to madam toussard (bound to have got that one wrong) and i had the inlaws with me (from US) and they could not belive the interaction going not only with the assistant - qwho looked after my daughter for a couple of mins, but also the banter (talk) between guys in the queue.

i have tried this state side interacting with shop assistants - and i got some very funny looks - they just wern't used to it -
did it in Norway - and got some laughs - even in Germany (trust me thats hard work Germans are not know for there humor).

even waiter and waitress interact with them - they are people - they need respect, recoginition(?) it can be a smile or a nod - or a few words-

here i go again rambling on .....

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I'm going to digress from the bashing for a bit and comment on some remarks in the recent part of this thread.

If you don't like USA coffee, you didn't have it in N'Awlins.

If you think the food is tasteless, you didn't eat at a Cajun restaurant in N'Awlins.

Standing offer: If any of you are coming to N'Awlins, send me e-mail in advance to The_Doc_Man@yahoo.com so we can privately arrange how to meet. Don't expect an immediate answer because I don't use that account very often. But it is still valid as of this weekend.

If we can "hook up" as we say in the states, I'll take you to a place where the food has flavor. (Not my treat for the food, but maybe my treat for the ride.) My wife LOVES to meet people from other countries. If you aren't coming in on a weekend, logistics might be a stretch, but it won't stop me from trying. Just promise to not talk shop too much. My dear wife will want a more culture-comparison oriented conversation.

By the way, I have eaten at Indian restaurants that served fairly decent sweet and hot curries. After Katrina, we don't have as many of those as we used to, mostly by accident of flood elevation wiping out areas seemingly capriciously. But we have some decent Italian, a little bit of Greek, and lots of Chinese, Vietnamese, Mexican, and a few other ethnic eateries. For some reason, after the close of the Vietnam War, we had a LOT of immigrants from the parts of Vietnam being overrun at the time. Some of my co-workers are naturalized USA citizens originally from S. Vietnam. (Guess they feel at home in our hot, steamy swamps.) We get some great shrimp and chicken recipes from those folks.

Now, if you are thinking beef, we actually aren't known for Creole Beef recipes. There aren't that many because cattle and N'Awlins didn't always go together. Prior to, oh, 1890, we weren't very big on cattle in South Louisiana. Too heavy for the swamp land in the area. As shipping via trucks from central and northern Louisiana become feasible, we developed a better beef market. But the old, traditional recipies were based in pork, chicken, duck, fish, crabs, shrimp (prawns to some people), and crayfish (crawfish, crawdads, ecrevisse). Things that were available at close range here in Sout' Lousy-anner. Oh, add to that - oysters and alligators. Alligator Sauce Piquant is not to be missed if you have fresh 'gator and fresh cayenne. But then, Redfish Courtboullion is no laughing matter, either.

 

[Brianwarnock]

Doc my comment on the coffee was a generalisation, and probably aimed at breakfast coffee, don't specifically remember New Orleans for its coffee , but liked its food , jazz, archiecture. Back there next spring but its a coach tour and not sure of the time table yet, but you never know you might have the misfortune to get an Email.

brian

 

[Bodisathva]

Standing offer: If any of you are coming to N'Awlins,...If we can "hook up" ...I'll take you to a place where the food has flavor. (Not my treat for the food, but maybe my treat for the ride.) My wife LOVES to meet people from other countries. ...My dear wife will want a more culture-comparison oriented conversation.

Nice offer there, Doc, does PA count? My wife's never seen N'Awlins