Should Abortion be Allowed?

[Brianwarnock]

Of course I am biased towards the generic Christian view (That abortion is wrong in all circumstances),

So the pregnant mother with 2 kids and whose life is at risk and the only way to save it is to abort the baby , well tough they have just both got to die.

Brian

 

[Brianwarnock]

As a man who's has a loving wife, 2 children, and more than a few close calls (one of them being a few weeks ago when a 6 point buck came thru my car window), that's an assumtion i'm totally willing to make.

Do we take this to mean that if you hadn't escaped those close calls you wouldn't believe in God?

Brian

 

[Mike375]

So the pregnant mother with 2 kids and whose life is at risk and the only way to save it is to abort the baby , well tough they have just both got to die.

Brian

And for 99.99% of religious people the "it's God's will" won't hold up because that 99% would have surgery themselves to prevent death.

And "we have no right to choose which one lives" does not hold up as the baby would only survive with medical intervention.

 

[Kryst51]

So the pregnant mother with 2 kids and whose life is at risk and the only way to save it is to abort the baby , well tough they have just both got to die.

Brian

Yes, I don't like it, but yes. I operate under several assumptions here. 1.) The God of the Bible created this Earth and all things in and on it.

2.) We are all subject to the consequences of the sin that entered this world through the actions of Eve.

3.) Sin effects everything, our minds, actions, and also the way the earth itself operates, giving occasion for desease and the decay of our bodies over time.

4.) We will all die, there is no out to that. Not only will we all die, but our time is already set before we are even born. See Psalm 139 for that.

5.) We are given standards to live by. I do not like the effects of sin, (the fact of a mother who will die in childbirth, I am not heartless like that, and neither is God.) But I do believe that a baby is alive. So choosing abortion in that case is committing murder over allowing a natural occurrence.

6.) Someday, God will restore His earth to what it was intended to be, and this heartache will be no more. Until then there are sacrifices, hardships, evils, hurts, and sorrows that we all have to live through. But for those who believe in God, and in Jesus Christ and what he did for humanity through His death, burial and ressurection, (provided payment for our sin, reconciliation to God) we have Hope. Hope in eternal life, one without death.

I am very well aware that many people on this site don't agree with me. There are even Christians who don't agree with the "No abortions ever" sentiment. So please take this for what it's worth (my opinion and what I believe to be absolute Truth), but please don't discount it's worth and what it could mean to your life.

 

[Brianwarnock]

So you would never kill, in any circumstances, not even to protect your wife and children?

Brian

 

[Kryst51]

So you would never kill, in any circumstances, not even to protect your wife and children?

Brian

When it comes down to these things, I know murder is wrong. I don't know how to answer your question. I will talk with my pastor about this question as it is a good one. (I'll have a better answer for that in a few days. Off the top of my head the difference is probably self-defense vs. murder, but I am not sure.) But please, don't get me wrong, I am not trying to set myself up as judge over life and death. I have certainly not been given the authority to do so. I am also as equal of a sinner to anyone else, so I am in no position to judge another's actions. Anything I say, is based on God's law, He is the ultimate Judge. So I will fight for the Truth, but in the end, I am not responsible for the outcome on either side of the line.

Edit: of couse in my case it would be my "husband and children"

 

[Brianwarnock]

I am not trying to put you on the spot or change your views, merely understand them.

As I said erlier in the thread I selected option 2, I also agreed that we would be killing a living being.

Brian

 

[Kryst51]

I am not trying to put you on the spot or change your views, merely understand them.

As I said erlier in the thread I selected option 2, I also agreed that we would be killing a living being.

Brian

I understand, I find it hard to explain one view without opening up so many others that the original view is based upon....

 

[chergh]

I'd have less issue with the religious position if less of them were pro death penalty.

Personally I'm against abortions with no reason but I also believe no one should be allowed to dictate to another person what they can or cannot do with their own body, unless the person is insane.

 

[Kryst51]

I'd have less issue with the religious position if less of them were pro death penalty.

Personally I'm against abortions with no reason but I also believe no one should be allowed to dictate to another person what they can or cannot do with their own body, unless the person is insane.

Oddly enough maybe to you, I don't like the death penalty. I don't think we should let people commit heinous crimes over and over, but there has to be a better way to handle things.

 

[georgedwilkinson]

Governments consistently tell people what to do with their bodies.

You're not allowed to commit suicide. You're not allowed to take illicit drugs. During prohibition, you were not allowed to drink. In many jurisdictions, you are not allowed to smoke in many places.

Now the issue is that people find a way to do all kinds of things that aren't allowed. That is the issue we had with abortion before Roe v. Wade. And then there was the huge crime problem related to prohibition. And there is the huge crime problem related to illicit drugs. And people still find ways to commit suicide.

Governments seem to have the ability to tell us all manner of things and to even kill us if we disobey. As a Christian, I am told to obey my government, even if they want me to do something I don't want to do for whatever reason. This is another reason I'm squishy on the whole abortion issue: my government has stated it is "allowed".

 

[Kryst51]

Governments consistently tell people what to do with their bodies.

You're not allowed to commit suicide. You're not allowed to take illicit drugs. During prohibition, you were not allowed to drink. In many jurisdictions, you are not allowed to smoke in many places.

Now the issue is that people find a way to do all kinds of things that aren't allowed. That is the issue we had with abortion before Roe v. Wade. And then there was the huge crime problem related to prohibition. And there is the huge crime problem related to illicit drugs. And people still find ways to commit suicide.

Governments seem to have the ability to tell us all manner of things and to even kill us if we disobey. As a Christian, I am told to obey my government, even if they want me to do something I don't want to do for whatever reason. This is another reason I'm squishy on the whole abortion issue: my government has stated it is "allowed".

You make an excellent point. I am going to start volunteering at a place called the Crisis Pregnancy Center, soon. And this place offers counseling and support to women who are pregnant. Being a pro-life organization it seeks to inform women about all of their available options and how each option could effect them, not only physically but emotionally too. And to offer support to those who decide to keep their babies, whether or not they give them up for adoption at a later time. I am not sure what they do for those who choose abortion, at least not yet. (I suppose I'll learn a lot once I start vounteering.) I do no that they do not offer abortion services however, but here is a wikipedia link

What I like about the idea, is that women are informed, before they make a decision. And are given options with support. I know that the ones around here even have a home where women who are told that they cannot stay at home and have their baby are able to go to, where they get support and shelter through their preganancy.

George excellent point about us having to obey our government. Fortunately for us, our government is still one where we are able to vote and make our opinions known, and our laws allow for protestation.

 

[georgedwilkinson]

George excellent point about us having to obey our government. Fortunately for us, our government is still one where we are able to vote and make our opinions known, and our laws allow for protestation.

Totally agreed. But I pick my battles and this is one I don't even understand, much less think can be solved. But since the government has legalized abortion, I don't think it is the Christian's job to enforce no-abortion (especially by destruction of property or murder).

I would totally support a clinic like the one you're talking about. I'd even almost go so far as to say it's OK to send public funds there (sorry Banana!). I just don't believe the government should be paying for people to make the same mistakes over and over without any penalty for doing the wrong thing, potentially killing innocents (thus my support of sterilization). I guess you can tell I don't think I'll ever be running for public office!

 

[Banana]

I'd even almost go so far as to say it's OK to send public funds there (sorry Banana!). I just don't believe the government should be paying for people to make the same mistakes over and over without any penalty for doing the wrong thing, potentially killing innocents (thus my support of sterilization). I guess you can tell I don't think I'll ever be running for public office!

LOL, fair enough. I've long ago accepted that my position on 'how things ought to be' was a bit um, out of there?

My perspective is that exactly because of public funding and 'legislating morality' thing we've got going on here, almost everything has been politicalized when it always should have had been a personal and private decisions.

I already mentioned the problem of government taking a position in the realms of public policy and thus politicalizing what should have been a personal decisions. I'm wholly in favor of allowing people to form organizations and raise money to provide services consistent with their system of beliefs - just don't ask anybody else to pay for it by force (aka taxation), please. IMHO, this is the only consistent system to coexist with so many different people with their beliefs, system of morals and what nots.

I fear that if I were to run for office I'd be in the same bin with the likes of LaRoche, Robertson, Paul, and just about other wackos.

 

[Adam Caramon]

I'm not sure I really understand this whole government issue in abortion. Some of you guys are saying you don't want the government to decide if abortion should be legal or not, or at least that is what it seems you're saying.

Who exactly should determine if abortions are legal?

 

[Banana]

I'm not sure I really understand this whole government issue in abortion. Some of you guys are saying you don't want the government to decide if abortion should be legal or not, or at least that is what it seems you're saying.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Government has no place in questions of morality. It should never have been a political issue and should have remained a personal decision, IMHO.

Who exactly should determine if abortions are legal?

Everyone decide for themselves. Not government's problems nor is it anybody's place to impose their code on anybody else.

EDIT: To be explicit - I'm also saying this is a legal nonissue. People ought to be free to do what they want to, set up an abortion clinic or a crisis pregnancy center or whatever is consistent with what they believe and service the clients who come to them voluntarily. No need to be told by fiat or mandate by a bunch of clowns who won a popularity contest.

 

[scott-atkinson]

Why does the subject of Abortion have to turn into a religious debate, when clearly it is about the taking of a life unnecassarily, and not about a persons faith or who they worship.

Not every thing in this world revolves around religion you know.

The subject is; is it right to have the decision to end an unborn life, and under what circumstances if any is it right to make this decision.

And clearly the situation that I described in an earlier post is not the correct circumstances to abort a life, especially when later a new life is created...

Believers and Non Believers, please get off your soap boxes...

 

[Banana]

Scott, I think you are missing that fundamentally, abortion is a moral question and as such will be answered according to one's moral framework, which various religions & philosophies will be used to answer the question. To say it shouldn't be answered in such context is akin to saying that you can ask a question about arithmetic but you can't answer in mathematical terms, as I see it. People didn't draw their conclusions about abortions in a vacuum, they did so in context of how they approach the world in general - else, they wouldn't be very consistent, would they be?

 

[oumahexi]

Why does the subject of Abortion have to turn into a religious debate, when clearly it is about the taking of a life unnecassarily, and not about a persons faith or who they worship.
.

You're right Scott, it's not about who or what you worship or don't worship, it's about morals. However, a great deal of our morals do come from our religious beliefs and/or those of our forefathers. Like it or not, religious or not, we all pass moral judgment on our fellow humans. Perhaps the key to peace is to get past this obstacle, however, I cannot see it happening in my lifetime.

I don't agree with abortion, unless there is a very good reason for it (on that subject Krystal, I can't understand a God that would offer us the technology to save a life - through abortion - and condem the use of it) and I do feel very sad for anyone who has had to go through that process for any reason. For the life of me though, I cannot pass judgement and say hand on heart "I would never ever do that" (except for the fact that I'm waaaay past having to worry about that of course ).

 

[Kryst51]

Totally agreed. But I pick my battles and this is one I don't even understand, much less think can be solved. But since the government has legalized abortion, I don't think it is the Christian's job to enforce no-abortion (especially by destruction of property or murder).

I don't know about this being governments responsibility or not. It is certainly not my job to enforce no abortion in the ways you mention.... that would be very hypocritical. But, especially as a woman, I feel it is my responsibility as a Christian to voice what is right and wrong, to not do that (as others here have even mentioned) would be the same as condoning murder in my eyes... But I agree that a person needs to pick their battles, there are several discussions I do not get involved in, because I don't want to argue (I can get heated sometimes), or I just plain don't know enough, even though I know my general stance.