Should taxes be raised on the wealthiest people?

I think the right decisions are a jumble of hard data, interpreting/challenging the meaning of the data, as well as beliefs and philosophies.
I'm not sure how you can exclude the last two.
Data might show something to be extremely effective at something, but philosophy might preclude the objective - etc. etc.
I'll admit I have a hard time feeling like discussing hard data can be totally dispositive of any major social issue.
 
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@Thales750 - you asked for some reasons why I think the way I do.

In a nutshell, I am tired of seeing lazy, good-for-nothing slackers vote for people who throw money their way because those slackers don't want to do any work themselves. I am tired of watching folks vote for people whose policy is to hire goons ('scuse me, federal agents) to gather up someone else's money to support those slackers because to them it is a legal way of stealing that for which I worked 40+ years to earn. I am tired of watching crazy-arsed government research grants on the vortices caused by different wing-flapping pattern of various moths or the relative methane content of tropical vs. temperate-zone termite flatulence. I am tired of watching expensive study after expensive study that eventually comes to a conclusion that we don't spend enough money on national infrastructure. (Well, DUH! Why did we need more than ONE study?) But so many other insane programs come out of the woodwork that I find myself ready to believe that NOBODY wants to earn an honest dollar any more.

I am sick and tired of watching people make insane decisions regarding guns, environmental regulations, land use regulations, immigration policies, and a myriad of other nonsensical decisions. I am sick and tired of bureaucracies making up rules as they go. (Though that last one may be stopped for at least a while with the revocation of the Chevron Deference Doctrine.)

I worked my butt off to get what I've got. I took care of my parents until they passed. I kept my nose clean (legally). We keep up the house so that it isn't an eyesore. I donate money freely to food-bank charities. (My wife and I agreed on that as a good choice and we researched it before picking the one that we did.)

That is a summary of my core objection to some of the issues you have brought forward. You wanted underlying motivation. You wanted reasons. You have them. Since they are based on core feelings, don't you DARE criticize me for answer your question directly. You wanted to know what I felt. I have answered that question.
 
The_Doc_Man said:
@Thales750 - you asked for some reasons why I think the way I do.

In a nutshell, I am tired of seeing lazy, good-for-nothing slackers vote for people who throw money their way because those slackers don't want to do any work themselves. I am tired of watching folks vote for people whose policy is to hire goons ('scuse me, federal agents) to gather up someone else's money to support those slackers because to them it is a legal way of stealing that for which I worked 40+ years to earn. I am tired of watching crazy-arsed government research grants on the vortices caused by different wing-flapping pattern of various moths or the relative methane content of tropical vs. temperate-zone termite flatulence. I am tired of watching expensive study after expensive study that eventually comes to a conclusion that we don't spend enough money on national infrastructure. (Well, DUH! Why did we need more than ONE study?) But so many other insane programs come out of the woodwork that I find myself ready to believe that NOBODY wants to earn an honest dollar any more.

I am sick and tired of watching people make insane decisions regarding guns, environmental regulations, land use regulations, immigration policies, and a myriad of other nonsensical decisions. I am sick and tired of bureaucracies making up rules as they go. (Though that last one may be stopped for at least a while with the revocation of the Chevron Deference Doctrine.)

I worked my butt off to get what I've got. I took care of my parents until they passed. I kept my nose clean (legally). We keep up the house so that it isn't an eyesore. I donate money freely to food-bank charities. (My wife and I agreed on that as a good choice and we researched it before picking the one that we did.)

That is a summary of my core objection to some of the issues you have brought forward. You wanted underlying motivation. You wanted reasons. You have them. Since they are based on core feelings, don't you DARE criticize me for answer your question directly. You wanted to know what I felt. I have answered that question.
Click to expand...
I 100% respect and appreciate that answer. Thank you
I got a news flash for you Doc, you ain't one of the wealthiest. You are exactly the guy that has the highest burden.
 
The_Doc_Man said:
you asked for some reasons why I think the way I do.
You wanted to know what I felt. I have answered that question.
Click to expand...
And a good answer it was.
I just got through reading this entire thread. I was guilty of being as snarky as some of the other folks, for my part I apologize.

I'm using this tablet. I'm going to get the laptop and explain the bases for my position. Stand by please.
 
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The_Doc_Man said:
In a nutshell, I am tired of
Click to expand...
Reminds me of that old movie Network where the guy sticks his head out of the window and shouts to the neighbors, I'm sick and tired and I'm not going to take it anymore. And there are lots of us out there with you Doc. It is hard to tell who's more to blame. In my mind the downward spiral is the fault of the Republicans because they have just hidden in corners and done nothing to stop the destruction of this country and they know better. But somehow they keep getting bullied into voting for absolutely evil bills. However, the Democrats have gotten downright dangerous and must be stopped. If the Republicans aren't going to do it, then it needs to be Trump.
 
Now if there could be a law that somehow told rich people Okay, after you've done all your wheeling and dealing to get around the tax code legally, you still have to pay a minimum of __ % no matter what. (to avoid those who pay nothing or close to nothing). I might be in favor of that.

Because I do feel that the middle class is taxed too much. I'm taxed a LOT in my opinion, and I have no special ways / lawyers / accountants of getting around it, all I do is claim the usual things - if there is any education credit I can claim I will, mortgage interest, self employed expenses but they are very modest and that's about it - I always end up paying net thousands. And I am not upper class. I just bought a pair of shorts at Walmart for $5. Pretty damn excited about that price too, to be honest.
 
Isaac said:
Now if there could be a law that somehow told rich people Okay, after you've done all your wheeling and dealing to get around the tax code legally, you still have to pay a minimum of __ % no matter what. (to avoid those who pay nothing or close to nothing). I might be in favor of that.

Because I do feel that the middle class is taxed too much. I'm taxed a LOT in my opinion, and I have no special ways / lawyers / accountants of getting around it, all I do is claim the usual things - if there is any education credit I can claim I will, mortgage interest, self employed expenses but they are very modest and that's about it - I always end up paying net thousands. And I am not upper class. I just bought a pair of shorts at Walmart for $5. Pretty damn excited about that price too, to be honest.
Click to expand...
You guys carry the full load.

Middle Class Folks supporting reduced taxes for the top class; is about the same as poor white cotton farmers going to war to support the rich folks right to own slaves.

"So Billy Bob, how did it go at the Cotton Exchange"?
"Well Darrel, not so good, the prices were all driven down by those big Plantations over yonder in Louisiana. Yeah but its OK. You know, we'll be going to war with them damned Yankees pretty soon".
"That'll straighten it out".
"Yessir, it sure will"
 
Isaac said:
Now if there could be a law that somehow told rich people Okay, after you've done all your wheeling and dealing to get around the tax code legally, you still have to pay a minimum of __ % no matter what. (to avoid those who pay nothing or close to nothing). I might be in favor of that.
Click to expand...
There is already one of those. It's called the Alternative Minimum Tax. Not sure how much good it does though. It did catch me one year when we had a huge medical expense. You'd think that wouldn't be part of this but it is how they catch the non-wealthy with this joke of a rule.

www.bing.com

alternative minimum tax explained - Bing

Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you.
www.bing.com www.bing.com
 
Pat Hartman said:
There is already one of those. It's called the Alternative Minimum Tax. Not sure how much good it does though. It did catch me one year when we had a huge medical expense. You'd think that wouldn't be part of this but it is how they catch the non-wealthy with this joke of a rule.

www.bing.com

alternative minimum tax explained - Bing

Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you.
www.bing.com www.bing.com
Click to expand...
That stupid AMT never kept up with inflation. That's why regular middle class people got hit with it. One of my clients got hit. Try explaining AMT to a lady close to 80.
 
Thales750 said:
You guys carry the full load.
Click to expand...

That's nowhere near true. According to this chart the top 1% pay over 40% of all income taxes. Add the next 4% and you're over 60% of the total. It would be nice to see what income levels define the income groups, but I didn't see it right off.


1722637713583.png
 
pbaldy said:
That's nowhere near true. According to this chart the top 1% pay over 40% of all income taxes. Add the next 4% and you're over 60% of the total. It would be nice to see what income levels define the income groups, but I didn't see it right off.


View attachment 115455
Click to expand...
But not as a percentage of their earnings.
We have leaniant taxes on capital gains. The whole system is set up to reward investment income.
 
Thales750 said:
But not as a percentage of their earnings.
We have leaniant taxes on capital gains. The whole system is set up to reward investment income.
Click to expand...
Investment income is what keeps our economy growing. Corporations wouldn't exist if individuals didn't buy shares. Every business would be a Mom and Pop shop. These are great for shopping districts but who would build furniture, vehicles, appliances, etc? If Investment income was heavily taxed than businesses would fail.
 
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