All good fun?

[dan-cat]

Hmmm interesting response.

Firstly, the Sunday Mirror seems to have been slammed as being a tabloid (which it is) and therefore all news is to be disregarded.

Wrong: Who said anything about disregarding all news? The Daily Mirror is a sensationalist newspaper relying on such tactics to increase its circulation. Nothing more. A more balanced source of information was being suggested as appropriate that's all. Bad logic.

May I say, this story has been reported in several newspapers and is also on the BBC news website here.

Then let us hear about it, instead of bandying around the accusation that people dismiss the entire field of journalism out of hand.

Secondly, Selena your quote seems a touch paranoid, I didn't mention Americans,

Not at this point, but once again you prove the need for such caution. I'll point it out further on in my post.

Then Matty wades in with his export / money bit. Again displaying paranoia to the extreme

What on earth are you talking about? All that Matty did was post an article from the Canadian government attempting to dispel the myth that is perpetuated by a tatty British tabloid. He isn't 'paranoid in the extreme' and he didn't wade in. He said this ...

I'm not pro-sealing or anti-sealing, I'm just against people protesting without being fully informed.

I think you owe him an apology...

Dan-Cat obviously hasn't much to say, (for once)
and falls back on Kenny's "The Mirror" slam. ignoring the possibility that perhaps even US papers may report the story.

As per usual you use bad logic to disagree with anything I say. I was simply stating a fact that the Daily Mirror is tat and is reknowned in the UK for being sensationalist. If the US papers report the same story then show the links. Don't bandy around ungrounded accusations based on arguments that were never put forward. By the way I have as much to right to post here as you or anybody else so you can add that 'for once' comment on to your list of poor argumentative skills.

Then we get loads of name calling - culminating in a comment I never want to see again here - a poster wanting another to "die in a fire". An apology was given, (fair enough) but I would prefer it to be deleted, I was shocked when I read it. I have worked in Burns Units and have seen the results of burning flesh - its not something even to say in jest .

He's said his sorry - why don't you display some grace and give him a little lattitude instead of rubbing his nose in it? Some people on these forums have never given an unreserved apology even though they have offended somebody as much as you have been offended.

So to sum up - the majority of US posters assumed the initial post was aimed at them and fought back in a predictable paranoid fashion even resorting to 18th century seal hunting. Whereas the UK posters merely were trying to determine if there was a better way to cull seals, by asking for American opinion based on the US love of hunting.

Col

No, to sum up, the basis of this entire post is to stamp another derogatory label on a group of people and seek to widen the gap between UK and US posters. By the way the poster who mentioned 18th Century seal hunting has a location of "Netherlands". Forgive me Rak if I've got this wrong but I'm assuming you're Dutch. Does that make the Dutch paranoid too, Col?

 

[ColinEssex]

Well Colin, with the past history of slamming Americans, I jumped to conclusion. My apologies if you weren't meaning to slam Americans with your comment.

Hey I'm Republican and dang proud of it.

It's a Canadian issue, I merely was seeking other peoples opinions - especially if they are used to killing things.

Do Americans really say "dang"? wasn't that a song??? "Dang me" whats that all about?

 

[dan-cat]

Its as much my business as it is for any civilised person. Any cruelty to animals is barbaric. I include -

* Shooting deer or anything that moves just for the hell of it

The only way you are going to get anywhere near a deer in the wild to be able to shoot it, is for it to not know you are there.

What on earth makes you think that a deer who gets shot without knowing its being hunted in its own habitat suffers more than a pig who gets herded into a transporter packed full with his mates. Gets driven around the fricken city bypass for the next couple of hours. Reaches an abbatoir where it can hear more of its buddies dying, smell the blood of its compatriots and be exposed to all sorts of industrial noises that its never heard before. Gets strapped in to some kind of conveyor belt where the poor blighter is finally killed? The deer has no idea its coming - the pig on the other hand is pulled out of its comfort zone long before it meets its maker.

 

[selenau837]

Do Americans really say "dang"? wasn't that a song??? "Dang me" whats that all about?

Yes we do Colin.......I use 'Dang it' instead of the alternative. A few other kid friendly explinatives are

Ohh Crap!!
Great Googly Moogly!!
Jimminy Crickets!!!
Good Gravies!!
Ohh my goodness!!
Holy Cow!!
Good gracious!!
Ohh deary me!!

Those are just a few!!

 

[Matty]

Then Matty wades in with his export / money bit. Again displaying paranoia to the extreme - its not the culling thats the problem, its clubbing them with stoneage clubs that's the problem. If they were culled humanely, then there would be no problem.

If you would have read the whole thread, we have already discussed the "killing humanely" issue. These "stoneage clubs" have been approved by the Canadian Veterinary Association as being humane. At least as humane as a commercial abbatoir. That's why I got into this discussion:

Then along comes the old "how do UK abbatoirs kill things?" - answer? the same as US ones do I should imagine, inspected and tightly regulated.

Rich seems to think your ultra-modern abbatoirs are humane enough for him, so I just wanted to know what exactly he thought was "humane enough." If you guys are doing it so much better than us, I thought we could use those methods to improve our local abbatoirs. I also quoted further down the thread how tightly regulated this seal hunt is -- it's not just a bunch of crazy canadians with a nail in a 2x4 taking out seals for the fun of it.

Thanks to all who have backed me up while I was offline. I appreciate the support.

 

[dan-cat]

What business was Nam, Panama, Cuba, Iraq etc. etc. of yours ?

From abbatoirs to the Bay of Pigs - that is one hell of a surreal link up

 

[ColinEssex]

Wrong: Who said anything about disregarding all news? The Daily Mirror is a sensationalist newspaper relying on such tactics to increase its circulation. Nothing more. A more balanced source of information was being suggested as appropriate that's all. Bad logic.

I quoted the BBC - how about CNN - its the US edition

I was simply stating a fact that the Daily Mirror is tat

You have this paper in the US?

By the way I have as much to right to post here as you or anybody else

Feel free

He's said his sorry - why don't you display some grace and give him a little lattitude

I said fair enough, but would have preferred the comment to be deleted

Some people on these forums have never given an unreserved apology

With 32,000+ members I guess thats true

No, to sum up, the basis of this entire post is to stamp another derogatory label on a group of people and seek to widen the gap between UK and US posters.

What group of people? You mean because I saught a US persons opinion? Gosh, even I didn't spot that one Danny.

Col

 

[jsanders]

Colin,

I think you are confusing cruelty to animals and the intimate violence of the hunter. The act appears inhumane because it is close-up and extremely violent. That does not make it inhumane. Inhumanity would be caused by a purposeful prolonging of the death of the animal.

It is very unlikely that once smitten on the back of the head, the seal would even be conscious let alone capable of feeling anything.

And Richard,

After nearly two months of absence, I find it refreshing that your lack of knowledge is still only exceeded by your inability to comprehend.

 

[ColinEssex]

Rich seems to think your ultra-modern abbatoirs are humane enough for him, . . . .If you guys are doing it so much better than us, I thought we could use those methods to improve our local abbatoirs.

I would like to think we have the same or very similar regulations although to satisfy those that need actual proof of every word we type - I am unable to demonstrate this.

If the US papers report the same story then show the links.

I said perhaps US papers report the same story - (note the perhaps bit indicates I'm not sure) - I would have thought someone here must read US papers. Oh I forgot - maybe its been censored.

Col

 

[FoFa]

I quoted the BBC - how about CNN - its the US edition

That's good col, so now I have a question.
Why condem the action of the hunters instead of those that create the market to start with?

 

[dan-cat]

I quoted the BBC - how about CNN - its the US edition

How about withdrawing the remark that I think "all news should be disregarded" as unfounded?

You have this paper in the US?

No but we have people who travel to the UK and read the local media

Feel free

I do, with or without your blessing.

I said fair enough, but would have preferred the comment to be deleted

From a scale of 1 to 10 in accepting an apology that ranks about 0.01

With 32,000+ members I guess thats true

Of which kilobyte is not one and your 'mate' is, so why not cut him some slack.

What group of people? You mean because I saught a US persons opinion? Gosh, even I didn't spot that one Danny.

Col

This group of people...

the majority of US posters assumed the initial post was aimed at them and fought back in a predictable paranoid fashion

the group : 'majority of US posters'
the derogatory label: 'paranoid'

Are you going to withdraw the "all news should be disregarded" remark?
Are you going to apologise to Matty for suggesting he is "paranoid in the extreme"?
Do you accept that the statement of me "ignoring the possibility that perhaps even US papers may report the story" was unfounded?
Do you accept that it was not a US poster who resorted to 18th Century sealing?

Basically do you admit that anything you have said is wrong?

 

[ColinEssex]

And Richard,

After nearly two months of absence, I find it refreshing that your lack of knowledge is still only exceeded by your inability to comprehend.

welcome back Josey we missed you.

Col

 

[jsanders]

That's good col, so now I have a question.
Why condem the action of the hunters instead of those that create the market to start with?

Thanks fellow Texan, that was going to be my next point.

 

[Brianwarnock]

The CNN link did not clearup the issue as to whether the hakapik is humane or not, which seems to be the main issue being argued, or have I missed the point?

brian

 

[dan-cat]

I said perhaps US papers report the same story - (note the perhaps bit indicates I'm not sure) - I would have thought someone here must read US papers. Oh I forgot - maybe its been censored.

Col

It's your issue - why don't you do your own homework

 

[FoFa]

The CNN link did not clearup the issue as to whether the hakapik is humane or not, which seems to be the main issue being argued, or have I missed the point?

Missed the point. Almost all the articules state or reference something that says the hakapik is a human way to kill. I just think "we as humans" who do not live there or in an environment like that, it seems cruel and inhuman. But appearance can be deceiving.

 

[selenau837]

Missed the point. Almost all the articules state or reference something that says the hakapik is a human way to kill. I just think "we as humans" who do not live there or in an environment like that, it seems cruel and inhuman. But appearance can be deceiving.

Yes, it is all in how one percieves it. Perception is the basis of most peoples reality.

My problem is why club the baby seals. When it comes to deer hunting the fawn are never killed, unless by accident.

I just have a major issue killing the baby seals. Most US hunters do not kill the young of what ever their prey is. They usually go for the larger of the species.

 

[FoFa]

My problem is why club the baby seals. When it comes to deer hunting the fawn are never killed, unless by accident.

Economics. Deer are killed for meat (lets not start in about red necks killing for fun). Baby seals are killed for their pelt. The baby seal has a different desirable pelt from the adults. And baby seals are a decent enough size to make it worthwhile. Fawns have no value other then letting them grow up. A lot of fur bearing animals are already smaller than a seal, so their babies are to small to make fur harvest pratical. Baby seals are large enough, and there is a demand for their pelt, hence wham, bang, thank you moma seal.

 

[Brianwarnock]

Missed the point. Almost all the articules state or reference something that says the hakapik is a human way to kill. I just think "we as humans" who do not live there or in an environment like that, it seems cruel and inhuman. But appearance can be deceiving.

Yes but they also quote some other source saying its cruel, I don't know, I am prepared to believe the Vetinary society, but am cynical enough to wonder if they may have a vested interest.

Brian

 

[dan-cat]

I just have a major issue killing the baby seals. Most US hunters do not kill the young of what ever their prey is. They usually go for the larger of the species.

Mattys article did say that this generally doesn't happen...

Myth #3: Seals are not independent animals when they are killed – they still rely on their mothers and can’t even swim or fend for themselves.

Reality: Only weaned, self-reliant seals are hunted after they have been left by their mothers to fend for themselves.