Another mass shooting

[Pat Hartman]

When you side with the terrorists, you make your position absolutely crystal clear. You are fine with attacking civilians as they sleep. You are fine with ra**** women. You are fine with surrounding yourself with women, children, and invalids to ensure that Israel looks bad as they seek to kill you to get you to stop firing rockets as you try to kill more civilians. I get it.

You may be too busy studying propaganda but you might want to review the history of Israel and its conflicts with its neighbors, all of whom are intent on driving you into the sea. You know "from the river to the sea". That's what that means. Sweep the land clear of the Jews. Kill them all. EXACTLY - How many peace treaties has Israel signed with these untrustworthy neighbors and how many have been broken and who broke them in each case? There was a "peace" treaty in place on Oct 7th. Who broke it?

Everyone who disagrees with you seems to belong to a cult. Apparently, I now belong to two cults.

 

[Thales750]

When you side with the terrorists, you make your position absolutely crystal clear. You are fine with attacking civilians as they sleep. You are fine with ra**** women. You are fine with surrounding yourself with women, children, and invalids to ensure that Israel looks bad as they seek to kill you to get you to stop firing rockets as you try to kill more civilians. I get it.

You may be too busy studying propaganda but you might want to review the history of Israel and its conflicts with its neighbors, all of whom are intent on driving you into the sea. You know "from the river to the sea". That's what that means. Sweep the land clear of the Jews. Kill them all. EXACTLY - How many peace treaties has Israel signed with these untrustworthy neighbors and how many have been broken and who broke them in each case? There was a "peace" treaty in place on Oct 7th. Who broke it?

Everyone who disagrees with you seems to belong to a cult. Apparently, I now belong to two cults.

I have been a supporter of Israel since way before all this happened. But unlike you, I am open to see the big picture. Once again, Iran has outplayed Isael in the propaganda war at least with some vocal liberals.
Just like Russia has infiltrated the Trump camp.

I will repeat this for the 5th time.
Iran is the enemy of the West. Hamas has been the Iranian terrorist arm for the last 30 years.
You take my words out of context. Because in your mind only Trump supporters carry the truth.
I am a more useful Israely supporter than you are. Your rhetoric will do nothing but garner support from the extreme right. Every American should support Israel, but that does not mean supporting every one of their acts.
And you actually wonder why i call it Trump Worship.
By the way, I don't see those that disagree with me as cult members, only the ones who refuse to budge on any topic.

 

[Pat Hartman]

I am a more useful Israely supporter than you are. Your rhetoric will do nothing but garner support from the extreme right. Every American should support Israel, but that does not mean supporting every one of their acts.

If you are not as anti-Semitic as you sound, then you know that if Hamas surrenders and agrees to REAL peace that Israel would stop hostilities immediately. They would not continue the fight, much as they want to. Yet you tell Israel to lay down their arms but say nothing to Hamas? That is essentially death to Israel. What is it that you think is an actual solution because Israel backing down solves nothing and given the history of the conflict there should be no doubt in your mind that Israel backing down only gives Hamas the breathing room to rearm and attack again.

Ask yourself WHY Egypt and Saudi Arabia and Jordan and the rest of the neighbors flatly refuse to take Hamas (Gaza - but they voted for the Hamas promise to kill all the Jews. Don't make them out as innocent victims) refugees on even a temporary basis. I'll help you out. The children of Gaza have been raised from birth to be terrorists. They put on plays that depict how they will kill the Jews. They have little machine guns to use to shoot Jews. Their books teach them arithmetic by counting dead Jews. There is no way that these children will peacefully assimilate. They are terrorists in training.

When you start calling for Hamas to lay down their arms, return the remaining hostages, and surrender - then you will be supporting Israel. But instead, you call for Israel to lay down and die. I don't view that as supporting Israel. Nothing good comes out of this without Hamas actually surrendering. They are terrorists. You can't call "men" who ra** women and kill children "freedom" fighters unless you are stupid and blind to reality.

 

[Thales750]

If you are not as anti-Semitic as you sound, then you know that if Hamas surrenders and agrees to REAL peace that Israel would stop hostilities immediately. They would not continue the fight, much as they want to. Yet you tell Israel to lay down their arms but say nothing to Hamas? That is essentially death to Israel. What is it that you think is an actual solution because Israel backing down solves nothing and given the history of the conflict there should be no doubt in your mind that Israel backing down only gives Hamas the breathing room to rearm and attack again.

Ask yourself WHY Egypt and Saudi Arabia and Jordan and the rest of the neighbors flatly refuse to take Hamas (Gaza - but they voted for the Hamas promise to kill all the Jews. Don't make them out as innocent victims) refugees on even a temporary basis. I'll help you out. The children of Gaza have been raised from birth to be terrorists. They put on plays that depict how they will kill the Jews. They have little machine guns to use to shoot Jews. Their books teach them arithmetic by counting dead Jews. There is no way that these children will peacefully assimilate. They are terrorists in training.

When you start calling for Hamas to lay down their arms, return the remaining hostages, and surrender - then you will be supporting Israel. But instead, you call for Israel to lay down and die. I don't view that as supporting Israel. Nothing good comes out of this without Hamas actually surrendering. They are terrorists. You can't call "men" who ra** women and kill children "freedom" fighters unless you are stupid and blind to reality.

I apologize for stressing you out.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I apologize for stressing you out.

I have been hanging back on this but I have to side with Pat on this one. The Hamas attack Oct. 7th involved malicious (as opposed to accidental or secondary-to-war) murder. When there is a declared war, you expect casualties though there ARE suggested rules of war that avoid harm to people who are clearly non-combatants - like children and young, unarmed women. Hamas made it clear that they are not abiding by any civilized measures of war. They want brutality. Well, there are all sorts of ways to say this, but basically eradication of one side or the other is the only way this will ever end.

If you go by Biblical statements, Hamas fighters have done unto others and now are raising a protest that <gasp> others are doing unto them. If you go by more modern standards, what goes around comes around. Seems like war has come around. My own favorite variant is that all relationships are like mirrors - a reflection of your treatment to others.

I have to ask (as I have asked before in other threads on this same topic): When the avowed, WRITTEN, goal of your enemy is to obliterate you from the face of the Earth - and their recent actions bear out the reality of that intent,... do you not have the right to defend yourself at the same level? (HINT: IF your answer is "NO" then you need to plug your brain back in because there is a big disconnect somewhere.)

You should read some of the writings of Winston Churchill on the topic of Islam. He spoke from experience and he was not known to be a liar. If anything, he tended to be rather blunt and very direct in his pronouncements. I'll let you do the search: "Winston Churchill quotes on Islam" and see how many hits you get. The peaceful Muslims won't publicly condemn the extremists that much because of Islamic solidarity. But the militant and extreme wing of the Islamic society is riddled with hatred and when they have more political power, the world is in a bad situation.

 

[Isaac]

Down here in Texas, I hear several times every day how Biden single handedly ruined the economy. The Oil and Gas folks have to be careful with their words because they know that the US is now producing more oil and gas than anytime in history.
When Biden went got office the the O&G futures traders jacked up the prices, partially because of fear of what an embargo would do to oil prices. And, partially to damage the Biden Administration. This was some very effective propaganda. I still see memes blaming Biden for high gas prices when they are below $3.00.

Conservative anti-clean-air-folks have to curb their enthusiasm as well because Texas is the largest wind energy producer in the country.
I'm not against all the conservative policies, I'm simply against the literally insane rhetoric that spews out. This time for real I'm going back to work.

Gas is 4.50 here, still extremely expensive

 

[Thales750]

I have been hanging back on this but I have to side with Pat on this one. The Hamas attack Oct. 7th involved malicious (as opposed to accidental or secondary-to-war) murder. When there is a declared war, you expect casualties though there ARE suggested rules of war that avoid harm to people who are clearly non-combatants - like children and young, unarmed women. Hamas made it clear that they are not abiding by any civilized measures of war. They want brutality. Well, there are all sorts of ways to say this, but basically eradication of one side or the other is the only way this will ever end.

If you go by Biblical statements, Hamas fighters have done unto others and now are raising a protest that <gasp> others are doing unto them. If you go by more modern standards, what goes around comes around. Seems like war has come around. My own favorite variant is that all relationships are like mirrors - a reflection of your treatment to others.

I have to ask (as I have asked before in other threads on this same topic): When the avowed, WRITTEN, goal of your enemy is to obliterate you from the face of the Earth - and their recent actions bear out the reality of that intent,... do you not have the right to defend yourself at the same level? (HINT: IF your answer is "NO" then you need to plug your brain back in because there is a big disconnect somewhere.)

You should read some of the writings of Winston Churchill on the topic of Islam. He spoke from experience and he was not known to be a liar. If anything, he tended to be rather blunt and very direct in his pronouncements. I'll let you do the search: "Winston Churchill quotes on Islam" and see how many hits you get. The peaceful Muslims won't publicly condemn the extremists that much because of Islamic solidarity. But the militant and extreme wing of the Islamic society is riddled with hatred and when they have more political power, the world is in a bad situation

Then you misunderstood me as well.

I'm saying that Iran won this round of propaganda wars. I said it 5 time before this.

Iran is the enemy of the West.
Obviously, you are reading from my post exactly what you are expecting to read.

I already know everything you just wrote. There is no siding with pat on this. Pat is not listening to what I am saying.

 

[Thales750]

Gas is 4.50 here, still extremely expensive

Less than around $3 here.
In California?

 

[Pat Hartman]

If you can't put yourself in the homes of the families who were VIOLATED that day then you have no empathy. What Hamas did was evil at its darkest. There is no other way to look at what they did. It says everything you need to know about them and you want Israel to lay down and play dead?

Israel tries to not kill civilians but they will not stop killing Hamas without complete surrender and some actual assurance from Hamas and its supporters that the targeting of Israeli citizens will stop.

 

[Thales750]

ar, you expect casualties though there ARE suggested rules of war that avoid harm to people who are clearly non-combatants - like children and young, unarmed women. Hamas made it clear that they are not abiding by any civilized measures of war. They want brutality. Well, there are all sorts of ways to say this, but basically eradication of one side or the other is the only way this will ever end.

If you go by Biblical statements, Hamas fighters have done unto others and now are raising a protest that <gasp> others are doing unto them. If you go by more modern standards, what goes around comes around. Seems like war has come around. My own favorite variant is that all relationships are like mirrors - a reflection of your treatment to others.

I have to ask (as I have asked before in other threads on this same topic): When the avowed, WRITTEN, goal of your enemy is to obliterate you from the face of the Earth - and their recent actions bear out the reality of that intent,... do you not have the right to defend yourself at the same level? (HINT: IF your answer is "NO" then you need to plug your brain back in because there is a big disconnect somewhere.)

You should read some of the writings of Winston Churchill on the topic of Islam. He spoke from experience and he was not known to be a liar. If anything, he tended to be rather blunt and very direct in his pronouncements. I'll let you do the search: "Winston Churchill quotes on Islam" and see how many hits you get. The peaceful Muslims won't publicly condemn the extremists that much because of Islamic solidarity. But the militant and extreme wing of the Islamic society is riddled with hatred and when they have more political power, the world is in a bad situation.

Here is a link to Mike Pompeo, he says the same things that I am. He went on to turn it into an anti Biden campaign speech but the first part is exactly what I have been saying.

There is 'no doubt' that anti-Israel protests are 'highly coordinated' across senior levels in US: Mike Pompeo | Fox News Video

Former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo weighs in on the tensions in the Middle East, the anti-Israel protests and whether there's a connection between the two.

www.foxnews.com

and this is what the President had to say

President Joe Biden says the US is 'devoted' to defending Israel and the 'Iran will not succeed'

President Joe Biden says he expects an attack on Israel by Iran "sooner rather than later," in answer to reporter questions on Friday.

apnews.com

It's not about what people believe, it's about why, and how. Look how easy it is to get millions to support things.

How can anyone support Israel and not the Ukraine or the Ukraine and not Israel?
Because they are brainwashed by the propaganda pure and simple.

Iran and Russia are lead by anti Western despots. We (the West) should kill them, then our propaganda will prevail.

 

[AccessBlaster]

At some point Isreal will have to deal with Iran, fighting with Iran's proxies is a distraction from the real threat.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

At some point Isreal will have to deal with Iran, fighting with Iran's proxies is a distraction from the real threat.

In a way, that is why we should continue to support Ukraine. They can be OUR proxies against Russia, which remains a threat - though thanks to continued economic consequences and emigration to avoid being drafted to the Russian arm, that problem might eventually resolve itself with yet another collapse.

 

[AccessBlaster]

In a way, that is why we should continue to support Ukraine. They can be OUR proxies against Russia, which remains a threat - though thanks to continued economic consequences and emigration to avoid being drafted to the Russian arm, that problem might eventually resolve itself with yet another collapse.

While I don't disagree with your analysis, I will say we can't PRINT our way out of this mess by funding Ukraine, Israel indefinitely.

Eventually the chickens will come home to roost and we will be broke like the old soviet union.

 

[Pat Hartman]

but the first part is exactly what I have been saying.

What you have been saying is that Israel needs to lay down its arms. That is NOT what Pompeo is saying.

Hamas needs to surrender. That will stop Israel.

 

[Thales750]

What you have been saying is that Israel needs to lay down its arms. That is NOT what Pompeo is saying.

Hamas needs to surrender. That will stop Israel.

I never said that or anything close. You only hear what you are looking to hear.

 

[AccessBlaster]

Less than around $3 here.
In California?

Isaacs is in Arizona

 

[Pat Hartman]

The thousands of dead noncombatants has not played well around the world. And rightly not.

You are agreeing with the press which is totally biased.

I was making an observation and about the effects of the spin

You were agreeing with the spin. Israel is NOT responsible for the dead civilians. Hamas is. Hamas is lying about the numbers also. Look how they lied about the hospital and the missile that landed in the parking lot. As long as you keep blaming Israel, Hamas has won the propaganda war.

In the first days of the retaliation, Israel gave up the perception of moral superiority.

Only in your eyes. War is ugly. War is stupid. Civilians die. In this particular conflict, the pansy Hamas terrorists who wear masks to hide their identities hide behind women and children and invalids. Why don't you call them out instead of blaming Israel? Instead, you agree with the propaganda that blames Israel for the conflict.

Israel pulled out of Gaza in around 2004. How has Gaza fared since then? How has the billions donated to the Palestinian cause been spent? Let me help you out. They didn't upgrade the water supply. They didn't encourage investment to provide jobs for the people living in Gaza. They didn't upgrade the hospitals. They didn't distribute the non-monetary aid. They sold it to their captive audience. And they spent the money on luxury villas for themselves abroad and missiles with which to target Israeli citizens, not military sites. These are the people you are siding with by not actually supporting Israel. You say you support them but your words ring hollow when you agree with the propaganda lies.

 

[Thales750]

Isaacs is in Arizona

What are you paying?

 

[Thales750]

You are agreeing with the press which is totally biased.

You were agreeing with the spin. Israel is NOT responsible for the dead civilians. Hamas is. Hamas is lying about the numbers also. Look how they lied about the hospital and the missile that landed in the parking lot. As long as you keep blaming Israel, Hamas has won the propaganda war.

Only in your eyes. War is ugly. War is stupid. Civilians die. In this particular conflict, the pansy Hamas terrorists who wear masks to hide their identities hide behind women and children and invalids. Why don't you call them out instead of blaming Israel? Instead, you agree with the propaganda that blames Israel for the conflict.

Israel pulled out of Gaza in around 2004. How has Gaza fared since then? How has the billions donated to the Palestinian cause been spent? Let me help you out. They didn't upgrade the water supply. They didn't encourage investment to provide jobs for the people living in Gaza. They didn't upgrade the hospitals. They didn't distribute the non-monetary aid. They sold it to their captive audience. And they spent the money on luxury villas for themselves abroad and missiles with which to target Israeli citizens, not military sites. These are the people you are siding with by not actually supporting Israel. You say you support them but your words ring hollow when you agree with the propaganda lies.

Once again, out of context. You are consistent,I will give you that.
What about the Ukraine?

 

[AccessBlaster]

What are you paying?

Mid 5's