Orlando Shootings

[Pat Hartman]

so if you travel interstate you could be legal in one state and illegal for something in another state. How do you learn all 50 states legalities to avoid arrest?

A crime is a crime and most people are raised to understand that so there is not normally a problem. Things like guns are different and everyone KNOWS they are different so it is up to the individual to be aware of the laws that will impact them if they travel. For example, the states that surround Connecticut - NY, Massachusetts, and Rhode Island do not have reciprocal "carry" laws. So, even though you are legal to carry in Connecticut, you cannot even drive through NY or MA or RI with a loaded gun in the passenger compartment of your car. It must be unloaded and possibly disassembled and stored in a locked case in your trunk.

Drunk driving is a crime everywhere. But individual states might have different views of how much alcohol in your blood constitutes "drunk".

The drinking age is different in different states. When I was young, the drinking age in CT was 21 but in NY it was 18 so some of the guys would drive the 80 miles to the NY state line and buy liquor in bulk if they were having a party. It was too far to drive for a night out so given where we lived (eastern CT), they would get a local drunk to buy them a 6-pack or use a fake ID.

Some states have really arcane laws on the books, cities also can make laws and they can get really bizarre. But you'd have to be really unlucky to run into one of those. They are always stupid things like "women cannot wear pink skinny pants into a bar before noon"

 

[Pat Hartman]

I have a brilliant book on The Supremes

I refer to them as the "Supremes" because they have lost my respect.

 

[DickyP]

But we do have a government with a Prime Minister who makes and amends laws applicable to the whole country so it is consistent.

Consistent but seldom sensible!

 

[The_Doc_Man]

That phrase is backwards.

We can argue forwards, backwards, or sideways. The bill of rights lists specific rights of the people and then, the 10th Amendment (the last of the original Bill of Rights) specifically says that rights not allocated to the states or to the federal government belong to the people by default. So I was incomplete in my summary.

 

[ColinEssex]

Think of the European Union as a corresponding structure.

The laws of the member countries are decided by a central European Parliament. Each member country has a European ambassador representing their country.
Col

 

[AccessBlaster]

True.
But we do have a government with a Prime Minister who makes and amends laws applicable to the whole country so it is consistent wherever you go in the country, unlike the USA who appear to have 50 governments,
Col

Yeah, but you are roughly the size of California, much easier to administrate than 50 of them, just saying.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

The laws of the member countries are decided by a central European Parliament. Each member country has a European ambassador representing their country.
Col

I didn't say "matching" structure. And does the EU government override ALL local laws? (If so, Brexit was no surprise.)

 

[DickyP]

The laws of the member countries are decided by a central European Parliament. Each member country has a European ambassador representing their country.
Col

The European Parliament does not make laws! It has no legislative powers, whatsoever. It merely endorses laws enacted by the European Commission. The parliament can recommend, but they can be (and often are) ignored

 

[DickyP]

Even your King doesn't make laws.

Technically you are wrong - ONLY the king makes laws in UK. Nothing passed by Parliament is law until it is given the Royal Assent. In reality, of course, you are correct.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Technically you are wrong - ONLY the king makes laws in UK. Nothing passed by Parliament is law until it is given the Royal Assent. In reality, of course, you are correct.

Which is not dissimilar to the U.S. method, where if a Bill (proposed law) is passed by Congress, it isn't a law until the President signs it. The president can veto the bill, in which case Congress has the opportunity to override his veto and make it a law anyway. Or if a bill is presented within the last few days of a Congressional session, a pending bill can be vetoed by just not signing it (called a "pocket veto.")

So just as the King makes a proposed law into a law, the president makes a bill into a law. In that restricted sense, both make laws. The problem we are having (and it was mentioned by Pat Hartman earlier in this thread) is that the president can issue an "Executive Order" which technically isn't a law but often has the force of law. Biden is currently trying to use his executive power to relieve students of their loan burden by forgiving student loan debts. The problem is that the program was enacted by Congress and Biden seemingly doesn't care about our rule called "separation of powers." He wants to interfere in a Congressional program and the courts have repeatedly ruled that he doesn't have that particular power. (It is more complex than that, but that's the high-altitude summary.)

 

[DickyP]

Ah - nuances! Don't you just love them?

The monarch in UK actually can make laws independent of Parliament, although it would be a reach to say her/she doesn't have their approval / acceptance. Such things as some Orders in Council are the monarch making laws, but these a best described as 'gentlemen's agreements' in most case. An example is the laws in UK concerning conscription, where when conscription was ceased in the early 1960s the laws concerning liability for service set by parliament were left in place, whereas the authority to implement it remains with the monarch without reference to Parliament*. It's the sort of anomalies we Brits seem to revel in.

* This subtlety was agreed as a direct result of the experience in 1939, when as we were about to go to war and rushing (panicking) to re-arm the Labour Party under George Lansbury voted against conscription.

 

[DickyP]

Yeah, but you are roughly the size of California, much easier to administrate than 50 of them, just saying.

People forget just how small and crowded the UK is: The USA has more than 40 times the land area (16 states are larger than UK), but only 4.9 x times as many people. Thus UK is some 812 % more crowded than the US.

 

[Dick7Access]

A crime is a crime and most people are raised to understand that so there is not normally a problem. Things like guns are different and everyone KNOWS they are different so it is up to the individual to be aware of the laws that will impact them if they travel. For example, the states that surround Connecticut - NY, Massachusetts, and Rhode Island do not have reciprocal "carry" laws. So, even though you are legal to carry in Connecticut, you cannot even drive through NY or MA or RI with a loaded gun in the passenger compartment of your car. It must be unloaded and possibly disassembled and stored in a locked case in your trunk.

Drunk driving is a crime everywhere. But individual states might have different views of how much alcohol in your blood constitutes "drunk".

The drinking age is different in different states. When I was young, the drinking age in CT was 21 but in NY it was 18 so some of the guys would drive the 80 miles to the NY state line and buy liquor in bulk if they were having a party. It was too far to drive for a night out so given where we lived (eastern CT), they would get a local drunk to buy them a 6-pack or use a fake ID.

Some states have really arcane laws on the books, cities also can make laws and they can get really bizarre. But you'd have to be really unlucky to run into one of those. They are always stupid things like "women cannot wear pink skinny pants into a bar before noon"

Vote Pat Hartman for president, Trump her vice president.

 

[Pat Hartman]

Sorry Doc, I didn't mean to sound critical. I was just trying to emphasize the point from which the authors were constructing the Constitution. To do that I have to quote The Declaration of Independence ----

.... We hold these truths to be self-evident .... That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed (that's us) And this is the thing that makes our government different from all other governments. Our government derives its power from US. They don't give us permission except as we allow it. WE give THEM permission. That's why the Constitution specifically protects our right to bear arms. The founders wanted the government to be afraid of us. We should not be afraid of them. Of course that concept seems to no longer be taught to our children and too many adults have also forgotten it. We won't even talk about the Executive and Legislative branches which seem to be out of control. -- That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government

So, The Declaration of Independence tells us that when the Government stops serving US, then we need to replace it. We are very close to that point. The Democrats need to take their party back. The Marxists in charge are doing their best to destroy this country.

Our Government has forgotten that they work for US. Trump tried to fix it during his first term but was thwarted by his own party as well as the Supremes who wouldn't allow Trump to revoke the Executive Orders issued by Obama - UNHEARD OF!!!!!!!!!!!!! Executive Orders are intended to be temporary. Congress was supposed to "fix" the immigration problem for the umteenth time. They didn't so Obama wrote some kind of cocamammy rule that gave certain illegal aliens rights that did not accrue to others but which were never granted by Congress. So we have all three branches who have lost their way. Congress won't solve certain problems, Presidents write Executive Orders, and The Supremes won't let subsequent Presidents revoke the Executive Orders. Hopefully, Trump will be better prepared for the deep state when he wins in November. The Biden administration is having the deep state write "laws" that prevent Trump from firing people in preparation for Trump's win.

 

[Dick7Access]

Vote Pat Hartman for president, Trump her vice president.

Pat nothing to apologize for. I am dead serious, I think you would make a good president

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Sorry Doc, I didn't mean to sound critical.

No problem. It's hard for me to draw the line between saying not enough, too much, and just right. That darned Goldilocks zone is sometimes hard to hit. Particularly for me, who is a known rambler and gabber. Some folks have the GIFT of gab, but I might have the CURSE of gab.

 

[Dick7Access]

Vote Pat Hartman for president, Trump her vice president.

Pat, probable the reason your message resonated so well with me is that I travel so much. In fact I just got a text from my organization they would me to do an event in Delaware in July. If I decide to do it, I will probable mossy on up to RI to see friends and Yankee food. In fact I may even let you take me out for connies.

 

[Pat Hartman]

I have a tendency to say too much as well but we have such a problem with citizens having no clue regarding how government works that I wanted to clarify what is probably the most important difference between OUR Constitution and that of other countries. WE THE PEOPLE own the government. They work for US. We don't work for THEM. Of course, that little detail has been forgotten and regardless of political party, politicians are working for themselves today, unless they are working for foreign governments. They no longer feel that they owe the people who voted for them any consideration.

 

[Dick7Access]

I have a tendency to say too much as well but we have such a problem with citizens having no clue regarding how government works that I wanted to clarify what is probably the most important difference between OUR Constitution and that of other countries. WE THE PEOPLE own the government. They work for US. We don't work for THEM. Of course, that little detail has been forgotten and regardless of political party, politicians are working for themselves today, unless they are working for foreign governments. They no longer feel that they owe the people who voted for them any consideration.

right on. Last five people I asked this week did not know what the Boston Tea Party was about.

 

[NauticalGent]

Last five people I asked this week did not know what the Boston Tea Party was about.

That is by design...