Are you an atheist?

[ShaneMan]

Xmas really isn't a time for children. They get too excited, they get sick from eating too many sweets and are a general all round pain.

Xmas is the time for booze and having fun. (Not with kids about)
Col

I sure hope statements that you make, like this one, are all just a fronts for this forum.

 

[Rich]

I'm trying to find a way of broaching the subject "Let's not spend for Xmas" to my family members. My wife and I started that practice years ago, but we still spend way too much on our grown children. I know they look forward to it, especially the two who are single, but I'd like to weed out this spend spend spend stuff. I don't mind buying stuff for my grandchildren, but I'd like it better if, in years to come, their fond memories of Xmas were the quality time they shared with their relatives, rather than the $$$ that got spent. Anybody doing that now?

In the current economic climate I think that many are going to change their spending habits at Christmas

 

[ColinEssex]

I sure hope statements that you make, like this one, are all just a fronts for this forum.

That one wasn't.

Col

 

[Rich]

No info on dates so you'll just have to get out there and buy your yuletide gifts before the 25th. Still 16 days left

I hope you realise that the Yuletide festival is a pagan one and as such is not celebrated by Christians, hang on a minute, or is it?

 

[Alc]

Xmas really isn't a time for children. They get too excited, they get sick from eating too many sweets and are a general all round pain.

B*llocks (intentionally so, no doubt).
They get excited - good.
They eat too many sweets - only if the parents are stupid enough to let them have too many sweets. That's like giving a kid a drum set then moaning when he hits it.
They're an all round pain - Yep, there's nothing like the annoying sound of a child laughing, or that annoying look of delight they get when they see that Father Christmas has visited overnight.

 

[Alisa]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL7FcvEydqg

Now if only it were god that had been spotted instead, we might have been able to kill this thread for good.

 

[ColinEssex]

They're an all round pain - Yep, there's nothing like the annoying sound of a child laughing,

Glad you agree. Xmas would be much better if it was restricted to the over 18's

Anyone under 18 should go to school / work as usual.

Col

 

[Mike375]

Based on Alisa's thread starting post the poll for this thread would indicate that over 60% of members fall into the uneducated department.

 

[Pauldohert]

Only 60%! I dont hold with the god question pointing in any particluar direction

unless

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hfPPB5_zUw&feature=PlayList&p=D4BE503DE795A686&playnext=1&index=28

Brilliant!

 

[dan-cat]

Brilliant!

Not really. He's actually quite condescending to those who differ from his opinions. People who rely on being flippant to make their argument generally don't have much to say of substance.

 

[Pauldohert]

Oh he his not brilliant. Sorry - glad you cleared that up.

Funny?

I hate to point it out put the whole thread is based on a condescending idea?

 

[Villarreal68]

This is my view: I believe in God. I do think that there is a Supreme Being that has created us. I have not been convinced otherwise.

Some see a BIRD and claim that it's the result of evolution and not of creation...But if you tried to convince that same person that an airplane was the result of evolution they would laugh on your face.

Some examin the EYE and claim that it's the result of evolution not of creation...But if you tried to convince that same person that a Hi resolution camera was the result of evolution they would laugh on your face.

Some examin the HUMAN and claim that it's the result of evolution not of creation...But if you tried to convince that same person that MIMO the Robot was the result of evolution they would laugh on your face.

Well let me tell you that if you can't accept that a PLANE, a CAMERA or a ROBOT have happened by chance that they all of a sudden became to exist, how could you believe that a BIRD, an EYE and the HUMAN being that are more complex from an engineering perspective than anything any human has created, could be the result of chance?

I'm an open minded person and I have heard many arguments that may humans have come up with to convince themselves that they don't have a creator (maybe to feel that they don't have any responsability to anyone) and they just don't make sense. They all crumble below their feet as they try to explain it.

As of today I have not heard any argument from the point of logic that has convince me otherwise, so I strongly believe that my body has been magnificiently Created!

As to the argument that as you get educated you become an atheist. Well consider this: You send young people that to a certain level are naive, and you wrap them up as a gift and send them to a university to a bunch of adults that have their own agenda. These professors don't stick to teaching the school materials. They take advantage of this audience of naive young minds and push all their personal/political/atheist/racist/etc/etc. load that they have been carring and unload them on these kids.
Sending these kind of naive kids to the university is in a lot of ways like opening a door into great knowledge. But in others in to so many ideas that as a parent you would not teach your kids but they (professors) will not think twice in stuffing it into their minds if it pleases his ideals.

 

[ButSeriously]

This is my view: I believe in God. I do think that there is a Supreme Being that has created us. I have not been convinced otherwise.

Couldn't He have created everything then let us evolve? Maybe He just forgot about us, or went to get his tea - like maybe in Godworld tea time is just an hour to him but millenium to us? Supreme being after all, how are we supposed to know what's going on there?

Some see a BIRD and claim that it's the result of evolution and not of creation...But if you tried to convince that same person that an airplane was the result of evolution they would laugh on your face.

Some examin the EYE and claim that it's the result of evolution not of creation...But if you tried to convince that same person that a Hi resolution camera was the result of evolution they would laugh on your face.

Some examin the HUMAN and claim that it's the result of evolution not of creation...But if you tried to convince that same person that MIMO the Robot was the result of evolution they would laugh on your face.

I wouldn't laugh either on or in your face, I'd probably just say, yes, that's evolution all right, mans mind has evolved sufficiently to allow us to create that...

I'm an open minded person and I have heard many arguments that may humans have come up with to convince themselves that they don't have a creator (maybe to feel that they don't have any responsability to anyone) and they just don't make sense. They all crumble below their feet as they try to explain it.

Actually, you are quite wrong there. I've met many atheists who are extremely responsible, feel a responsibility and indeed show far more "Christianity" in their deeds than a lot of the believers I've met. I only pick on Christianity because it's the most popular, but I'm sure other religions apply. Being an atheist does not give you a get out of jail free card to rampage through life. You make them all sound like axe murders! You'll actually find that a lot of serial killers are believers! That doesn't make all believers serial killers.

As to the argument that as you get educated you become an atheist. Well consider this: You send young people that to a certain level are naive, and you wrap them up as a gift and send them to a university to a bunch of adults that have their own agenda. These professors don't stick to teaching the school materials. They take advantage of this audience of naive young minds and push all their personal/political/atheist/racist/etc/etc. load that they have been carring and unload them on these kids.
Sending these kind of naive kids to the university is in a lot of ways like opening a door into great knowledge. But in others in to so many ideas that as a parent you would not teach your kids but they (professors) will not think twice in stuffing it into their minds if it pleases his ideals.

Again, not fair. If you are so worried about your kids' education, send them to an ACE school or one built around your specific beliefs and monitor their subjects, but don't have a go at the entire teaching profession.

By the way, good for you voicing your opinion. I don't agree with a lot you said, but it's your right to say it.

 

[Brianwarnock]

But if you tried to convince that same person that a Hi resolution camera was the result of evolution they would laugh on your face.

Is that because they would be too stupid to know about the evolution of photography and think that the first ever camera was a high res?

Brian

 

[Alc]

Some see a BIRD and claim that it's the result of evolution and not of creation...But if you tried to convince that same person that an airplane was the result of evolution they would laugh on your face.

Some point out that an aeroplane was created for a specific purpose. This purpose is well-documented. The names and locations of the people who created the aeroplane can be easily determined. The fact that they exist in the physical universe and are bound by its laws can be proven, scientifically and repeatedly.

Some also point out that birds have no specific purpose. They just exist. Comparing them to aeroplanes displays a distinct lack of understanding of how and why things are invented.

Some examin the EYE and claim that it's the result of evolution not of creation...But if you tried to convince that same person that a Hi resolution camera was the result of evolution they would laugh on your face.

See above.

Some examin the HUMAN and claim that it's the result of evolution not of creation...But if you tried to convince that same person that MIMO the Robot was the result of evolution they would laugh on your face.

Well let me tell you that if you can't accept that a PLANE, a CAMERA or a ROBOT have happened by chance that they all of a sudden became to exist, how could you believe that a BIRD, an EYE and the HUMAN being that are more complex from an engineering perspective than anything any human has created, could be the result of chance?

See above.
Nobody has ever proven that birds or humans exist for a purpose.
The eye has developed in order that living creatures possessing them can better function.

I'm an open minded person and I have heard many arguments that may humans have come up with to convince themselves that they don't have a creator (maybe to feel that they don't have any responsability to anyone) and they just don't make sense. They all crumble below their feet as they try to explain it.

As of today I have not heard any argument from the point of logic that has convince me otherwise, so I strongly believe that my body has been magnificiently Created!

If the logic (for want of a better term) you apply to understand the idea of evolution is as you just described, I'm not surprised you remain unconvinced. You seem incapable of accepting the idea that something can exist without having a specific purpose. That applies to manmade items, but not to the natural world.

As to the argument that as you get educated you become an atheist. Well consider this: You send young people that to a certain level are naive, and you wrap them up as a gift and send them to a university to a bunch of adults that have their own agenda. These professors don't stick to teaching the school materials. They take advantage of this audience of naive young minds and push all their personal/political/atheist/racist/etc/etc. load that they have been carring and unload them on these kids.
Sending these kind of naive kids to the university is in a lot of ways like opening a door into great knowledge. But in others in to so many ideas that as a parent you would not teach your kids but they (professors) will not think twice in stuffing it into their minds if it pleases his ideals.

Substitute 'church' for 'university' and 'priest' for 'professor' and I'm with you there.

Where do you get the idea that racism is being widely pushed by professors? Haven't people throughout history who were guilty of racism on a large scale often used some interpretation of religion to carry it out? Nationalism is often used too, but religion is a great way to convince uneducated people to do your bidding.

 

[April15Hater]

This is my view: I believe in God. I do think that there is a Supreme Being that has created us. I have not been convinced otherwise.

How do you reconcile the problem of evil?

 

[oumahexi]

but religion is a great way to convince uneducated people to do your bidding.

Substitute uneducated for weak-minded and I'm with you. I've met a lot of well educated people who are easily led down the wrong path. Not that I'm saying religion is the wrong path, it works for a lot of people and, kept in its place is a good thing.

But then I digress, this thread is not about religion, it's about a belief in god(s)

 

[oumahexi]

How do you reconcile the problem of evil?

What you see as evil others may not. For instance, my friends at Peta believe that it is evil the way the Chinese kill dogs, puppies, for food. Yet the Chinese don't see it as wrong, they can justify the way they kill their food in the taste. Who is right? Peta or the Chinese? I know who I side with, but does that make them right? Does that make me good and the other side evil?

 

[Alc]

Substitute uneducated for weak-minded and I'm with you. I've met a lot of well educated people who are easily led down the wrong path. Not that I'm saying religion is the wrong path, it works for a lot of people and, kept in its place is a good thing.

I meant uneducated in an older sense i.e. if you wanted to force your tribe to do something in particular, saying that god wanted it or he'd punish them with a plague, etc. would work as long as they weren't knowledgable enough to know better.

As I see it, if you're properly educated, you're not weak minded. Part of the education process should be the ability to think for yourself.

Religion is a crutch for many people and consolation for many more. Anyone who only does good things because they think god wants it is more than a bit suspect, as it suggests they'd run amok if left to their own devices.

 

[April15Hater]

Who is right? Peta or the Chinese? I know who I side with, but does that make them right? Does that make me good and the other side evil?

It isn't about being right, it's about being evil. Regardless of who is right, there is a party that sees eating dogs as being evil, therefore there is an evil that exists. If God is-

1) All Good
2) All Knowing
3) All Powerful

then one must forfeit at least one of the three to reconcile the existence of a supreme being.