Are you an atheist?

[oumahexi]

I meant uneducated in an older sense i.e. if you wanted to force your tribe to do something in particular, saying that god wanted it or he'd punish them with a plague, etc. would work as long as they weren't knowledgable enough to know better.

I see your point

Religion is a crutch for many people and consolation for many more. Anyone who only does good things because they think god wants it is more than a bit suspect, as it suggests they'd run amok if left to their own devices.

We all need something to motivate us though, whether it's the genuine release of serotonin or the belief that god will smile on us. Maybe atheists are just serotonin junkies.

 

[oumahexi]

It isn't about being right, it's about being evil. Regardless of who is right, there is a party that sees eating dogs as being evil, therefore there is an evil that exists.

Yes, but WHY is it evil? Just because that party says so! It's like saying God exists! or The Devil exists! Prove it! Just because the general concensus doesn't agree, why does it have to be evil? And why is it any more evil to eat a puppy than to eat a cow? It's all down to our perceptions, our comfort zones, not good and evil.

 

[Alc]

We all need something to motivate us though, whether it's the genuine release of serotonin or the belief that god will smile on us.

Absolutely.

However, couldn't it be argued that if someone is only behaving his or herself because they think an all-powerful being is watching them at all times, then that person is of questionable character to begin with?

 

[April15Hater]

Yes, but WHY is it evil? Just because that party says so! It's like saying God exists! or The Devil exists! Prove it! Just because the general concensus doesn't agree, why does it have to be evil? And why is it any more evil to eat a puppy than to eat a cow? It's all down to our perceptions, our comfort zones, not good and evil.

Even if evil has no criteria to become a necessary truth, that does not deny it's existence. That being said, your paradigm is the only way i've come remotely close to reconciling myself. I take the agnostic POV. However I can never give up an opportunity to play devil's advocate (no pun intended).

 

[Alisa]

As to the argument that religious people are just as educated as atheists, consider this:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/09/05/goat_sacrifice/

Are these the actions of educated people?

In case anyone objects to the source of the previous link:
http://www.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUSEIC47086020070904

 

[oumahexi]

As to the argument that religious people are just as educated as atheists, consider this:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/09/05/goat_sacrifice/

Are these the actions of educated people?

In case anyone objects to the source of the previous link:
http://www.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUSEIC47086020070904

Am I reading this wrong or are they saying that it worked? If it worked, then, hey, maybe there's something to that! I wonder what I'll get for sacraficing a ...

 

[Rabbie]

This is my view: I believe in God. I do think that there is a Supreme Being that has created us. I have not been convinced otherwise.

When I look at some of his believers I find it hard to understand why he bothered to do such a botched job

Some see a BIRD and claim that it's the result of evolution and not of creation...But if you tried to convince that same person that an airplane was the result of evolution they would laugh on your face.

Paling's argument from 1809. Still fallacious even if less elegantly put than the original

Some examin the EYE and claim that it's the result of evolution not of creation...But if you tried to convince that same person that a Hi resolution camera was the result of evolution they would laugh on your face.

Some examin the HUMAN and claim that it's the result of evolution not of creation...But if you tried to convince that same person that MIMO the Robot was the result of evolution they would laugh on your face.

Well let me tell you that if you can't accept that a PLANE, a CAMERA or a ROBOT have happened by chance that they all of a sudden became to exist, how could you believe that a BIRD, an EYE and the HUMAN being that are more complex from an engineering perspective than anything any human has created, could be the result of chance?

If you knew anything about the Theory of Evolution you would know it is NOT chance that drives it.

I'm an open minded person and I have heard many arguments that may humans have come up with to convince themselves that they don't have a creator (maybe to feel that they don't have any responsability to anyone) and they just don't make sense. They all crumble below their feet as they try to explain it.

As of today I have not heard any argument from the point of logic that has convince me otherwise, so I strongly believe that my body has been magnificiently Created!

IMHO The arguments for a god/gods/creator are less convincing than the arguments against. I do however recognise a mind that is not open to consider any arguments against their belif so I query your openness of mind.

As to the argument that as you get educated you become an atheist. Well consider this: You send young people that to a certain level are naive, and you wrap them up as a gift and send them to a university to a bunch of adults that have their own agenda. These professors don't stick to teaching the school materials. They take advantage of this audience of naive young minds and push all their personal/political/atheist/racist/etc/etc. load that they have been carring and unload them on these kids.
Sending these kind of naive kids to the university is in a lot of ways like opening a door into great knowledge. But in others in to so many ideas that as a parent you would not teach your kids but they (professors) will not think twice in stuffing it into their minds if it pleases his ideals.

It was not an atheist but a jesuit who said that given a child until he was 7 years old he would be his for life. Sounds like brainwashing to me!

 

[cookieduster]

There is no distinction to be made between atheists and theists as they both assert something that neither can prove.

Let’s hear for the agnostics!

 

[April15Hater]

ahhh yes...the beauty of being agnostic

 

[Rabbie]

There is no distinction to be made between atheists and theists as they both assert something that neither can prove.

Let’s hear for the agnostics!

Kindly desist from posting the same post on numerous threads. It gets boring and makes you look as if you don't understand how this forum works

 

[Dick7Access]

Can anybody recall any great philanthropy work done by a atheist?

 

[Lightwave]

The Human notion of benevolence is widely shared throughout society, and is very prevalent in the non profit sector and motivates many philanthropists.

Generally speaking we do not ask why a philanthropist is benevolent atheists are likely to keep quiet on their beliefs for fear of criticism.

 

[Galaxiom]

Can anybody recall any great philanthropy work done by a atheist?

Here are a few to get started.

Warren Buffett (~$40 Billion)
Bill and Melinda Gates (~$27 Billion)
George Soros (~$7 Billion)
Andrew Carnegie (~$390 Million from 1911 to 1919 ~ $5 Billion in today's equivalent)

Maybe someone could research this list.
http://www.businessweek.com/interactive_reports/philanthropy_individual_2008.html

 

[Alc]

Here are a few to get started.

Warren Buffett (~$40 Billion)
Bill and Melinda Gates (~$27 Billion)
George Soros (~$7 Billion)
Andrew Carnegie (~$390 Million from 1911 to 1919 ~ $5 Billion in today's equivalent)

Maybe someone could research this list.
http://www.businessweek.com/interactive_reports/philanthropy_individual_2008.html

Three out of the top four? Pretty good going.

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

I once believed in God, and then I had a spell where I didn't, and now I do. Why the change? Here are the facts according to Tony:

People site evolution as proof that God does not exist, if I were God, I would not individually manufacture every single living creature, I would "invent" evolution! Evolution is therefore proof that there is a God.

In 1956 two years before I was born Isaac Asimov wrote the story: "the last question" where he very accurately described the evolution of computers, (1956!!!) he got the physical scale of computers wrong, but that's all! He was spot on with the evolutionary intelligence of computers,(Re: Ray Kurzweil) and he showed how a computer could evolve into a " into "the God" our God...

The other problem often cited is "why are we here"? If God evolved and became the God like super being, a super being derived from the multiple intelligences, the multiple computers/brains uploaded, then I can see that this would be a "good and evil" situation, and imagine yourself this "God" you would want fresh minds to explore on a regular basis, the most gifted of us would be little more than a puppy in comparison, but look at the joy, the reward we get from a puppy. That's why we are the feedstock of intelligence for God's "Heaven" and no doubt there is an equivalent "Hell"

 

[Lightwave]

Sounds like you are arguing for other evolved beings which I consider completely plausible.

The first thing intelligent things do is try to create.

 

[Uncle Gizmo]

Sounds like you are arguing for other evolved beings which I consider completely plausible.

The first thing intelligent things do is try to create.

I think you're right In your condensing of what I am trying to say, to be clear what I think you are saying is that evolution begets intelligence, and then "intelligence" evolves further and better intelligences'


So really it comes back to the age old question: the chicken and egg question, what came first? Evolution, Intelligence or God?

It could be argued that God was there all the time, that God created the universe, God created intelligences', (in theory man) although I'm not sure man, and intelligent, should be used in the same sentence!

But then the argument becomes where did God come from? And you could say that evolution evolved God evolved from the evolution of species, and then the evolution of intelligence which is just beginning (The evolution of intelligence)

But now here is the leap, a small step for some, stupidity to others, if it proves correct that the universe is just one of many iterations, in other words many iterations of "universe" have gone before, and many iterations will follow the demise of this one, then you could argue that God did evolve in one of those iterations, was able to "step outside of" the universe, (the process of universe evolution) and stepped back in again to perform some sort of control over the next iterations. In other words we could well have a god from the get go (IN OUR UNIVERSE ITERATION)

 

[Lightwave]

Yes I suspect that evolution begets intelligence and intelligence seeks to create.

Unfortunately I don't think we'll find out in our lifetimes but I am sure that the truth is probably as wild and exciting as anything we can possibly imagine.

 

[Brianwarnock]

I think that you are supposed to find out when you are "dead", and then it's too late to use the info.

Brian

 

[Adam Caramon]

I think it would be interesting to see a study where accessibility of education is compared to levels or professed religious belief. In other related studies, there is a connection between low levels of education and high levels of religious belief.

As the internet is still relatively new, and provides a wealth of information, I imagine the more ubiquitous internet access becomes, the further levels of religious belief will be reduced.