Are you an atheist?

[Dick7Access]

for me sufficient evidence of the nonexistence of a god as described in the New Testament.

If you’re comfortable with that so am I.
The interesting thing to me is that you left off the OT was that intentional.

 

[Rabbie]

for me sufficient evidence of the nonexistence of a god as described in the New Testament.

If you’re comfortable with that so am I.
The interesting thing to me is that you left off the OT was that intentional.

Yes but I was brought up to believe in the NT god so he is the one I have rejected. To be quite honest the OT god does not always seem to be a very pleasant character - the ultimate control freak to be honest.

 

[Dick7Access]

OT god does not always seem to be a very pleasant character

I can't argue with you, there, one reason I don't argue with Him either.

 

[Brianwarnock]

Your right I did intentionally take it out of contents just for a little fun. If you’re offended I apologize. You see I haven’t put many post on the tread just for that reason. This topic and dialog is as old as man. People can get offended easy on both sides of the fence. I believe there is a God, I know his name, and I know what He expects of me. I also know that besides being a God of love, He is also a God of justice. If someone chooses to believe there is no god, or that maybe there is a god, but he is mean, or that he is only a god of love, that is ok with me.

I wasn't offended, I just wanted an explanation of your comment but it would appear that I am not going to get one.

I have been told by a devout friend that the OT is pre Jesus's teaching and therefore the NT overrides it.

Of course we always discuss God from the Christian perspective which is natural I suppose as that is what we were all brainwashed with as youngsters.

Isn't the God of Islam their Master, a very different concept than a Father.

Brian

 

[Dick7Access]

I thought I had explained my comment, sorry if I didn’t I will give it another try. Your comment “if He does exist and does influence events then I am seriously worried about meeting Him. Brian “ My comment was an attempted at a little humor is that if you don’t believe he exist, and He show up, he is not going to be too please with you.
I was talking with a friend in the military one time and he said how can you believe there is a god. I explained the death, burial and resurrection. That wasn’t enough for him, so I said. Ok, have it your way. Now you tell me that when I die I will turn to dirt is that correct. He said yes. Then I will never know if you’re right, but if I am right you will know. He freaked out, he said your think you are so much better than me, and started pointed out some of my sins. I didn’t accuse him of anything, but I think he protest too loudly. Don’t forget he is the one that brought it up
Now for the rest of your last post: If your friend believes that the OT is pre Jesus it is ok with me. I spent 22 years in the military so that anybody can believe what they want. My belief is that we can see Jesus in every chapter of the OT with the exception of a few and they evade my memory which one they are right now.
I was brought up in a Christian faith, but did not believe lots of it I only did it because as a kid I had to go to school, had to do my chores, had to go to church because my parents told me to. At 17 years old I joined the Navy to get away form being told what to do (humor) and get away from my ignorant parents, and to get away from their stupid religion. Three months of booth camp I realized that I was now being told to do more than my parents had. I also learned that maybe my parents were not that ignorant as some of the thing they tried to teach me is the same things that the Navy was trying to teach me. I still didn’t accept their religion. In fact I made fun of those that did believe. For years, however I had emptiness in my life. No matter how much rank I made it didn’t make a difference. College got some top grades, didn’t make a difference. Successful business it didn’t make a difference. I started studying many different religions and nothing made sense. One day I prayed, which was something I didn’t do and I said, God if you exist then show yourself to me, and the rest is history
You are right that Islam is a different concept of the God I serve, but I don’t have a problem with that until they try and kill me. I don’t even mind if they try and convert me, but don’t hurt me or try and get me to live by their standards.

 

[Lightwave]

Dick good luck with your views I think if it gives you strength it has intrinsic value for you whether others believe in it or not.

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

Of course on a very strict definition no-one can be an atheist because it is not possible to prove that a god does not exist.

God loves a trier !

 

[Adam Caramon]

Obviously, I know Santa is not real.

You've attributed a quote to me that someone else made.

Of course on a very strict definition no-one can be an atheist because it is not possible to prove that a god does not exist.

It all depends on what your definition of atheist is. I've always understood it to mean "doesn't believe in god". I've never heard of an atheist that held a faith-based position.

Dick good luck with your views I think if it gives you strength it has intrinsic value for you whether others believe in it or not.

Agreed. This holds for any belief, custom, practice, etc., that a person partakes in that doesn't hurt others.

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

You've attributed a quote to me that someone else made.

Most sensible thing you've said for while though, I'd run with it.

 

[Vassago]

You've attributed a quote to me that someone else made.

Yep, purely accidental. Sorry about that. I knew who I was actually replying to.

 

[Rabbie]

It all depends on what your definition of atheist is. I've always understood it to mean "doesn't believe in god". I've never heard of an atheist that held a faith-based position.

In some of the earlier posts in this thread it was suggested that atheism was an act of faith because the non-existence of god could not be proved. I disagree with this position and IMO there is a difference between not beleiving in a god or gods and hving an active belief in the non-existence ofgods

 

[Vassago]

...there is a difference between not beleiving in a god or gods and hving an active belief in the non-existence ofgods

Can you elaborate? It sounds like you are saying the same thing twice, but with different words.

 

[Adam Caramon]

Can you elaborate? It sounds like you are saying the same thing twice, but with different words.

I know this was directed at Rabbie, but here is my take:

Think of it as a 11-point scale.

11 - Diehard Religious
10 -
9 -
8 - Religious Moderate
7 -
6 - Agnostic
5 -
4 - Typical Atheist
3 -
2 -
1 - Diehard Atheist

There's a difference between 4 and 1 even though both are Atheists.

 

[Dick7Access]

I am definitely an 11, but I an interested in knowing what a 4 is????

 

[Galaxiom]

For years, however I had emptiness in my life. No matter how much rank I made it didn’t make a difference. College got some top grades, didn’t make a difference. Successful business it didn’t make a difference. I started studying many different religions and nothing made sense. One day I prayed, which was something I didn’t do and I said, God if you exist then show yourself to me, and the rest is history

One of the central psychological tools employed by the church involves the notions of intrinsic human worthlessness and meaninglessness of life.

Children of the faithful are exposed to this psychological abuse by well meaning parents in many ways. Since it is instilled from very early it can be very difficult for a person to recognise that it is concreted into the foundations of their character despite their conscious attempts to reject it.

It is no coincidence that you "studied many different religions" in search for an answer. Your psyche has been primed by your upbringing with a religious shaped hole. That priming also helped to you interpret your experience of "God showing Himself" in a way that would plug that hole. It is no surprise that you chose to pray to the god of your childhood in your final search for meaning.

I don't have any problem with people choosing faith if it helps them get through life. However I do strongly object to the religious insisting that their faith and dogma should form the basis for public policy over the indications provided by observed reality.

I think you will find that is the position of most atheists.

 

[Galaxiom]

In some of the earlier posts in this thread it was suggested that atheism was an act of faith because the non-existence of god could not be proved.

Describing atheism as a faith is like calling bald a hair colour.

 

[Dick7Access]

However I do strongly object to the religious insisting that their faith and dogma should form the basis for public policy over the indications provided by observed reality.

I think you will find that is the position of most atheists.

I strongly agree, whether it be Christian, Mormon, or Muslim, and you did a good job of defining who I am (humor), but that doesn’t tell me what a number 4 atheist is. I know what a no 1 atheist is.

 

[Adam Caramon]

..., but that doesn’t tell me what a number 4 atheist is. I know what a no 1 atheist is.

I would say that a #4 atheist is someone that does not believe in any gods, and bases that non-belief on logic and common sense. As most religions rely on magic or miracles, and there has never been documented proof of magic or miracles, the #4 atheist would assume it is a lie.

#3 or #2 atheist would be the same as above, but more active in speaking about their non-belief, engaging others in discussion/debate, perhaps joining atheist/humanist groups, etc.

#1 atheist is similar to above + no matter what evidence is presented to them, they will not change their mind.

 

[aziz rasul]

The only faith that the Creator (God) introduced to man from the time of Adam (peace be upon him) was Islam. Other deviant religions have either distorted Islam or have been invented by man.

In this day and age it's not difficult to prove that the Creator exists.

 

[Galaxiom]

The only faith that the Creator (God) introduced to man from the time of Adam (peace be upon him) was Islam.

Clearly the capacity for delusion among the faithful allows them to accept anything no matter how nonsensical.

Other deviant religions have either distorted Islam or have been invented by man.

All religion is an invention of man. All the Abrahamic faiths are no more sophisticated than primitive fascism and have no place in a healthy human society.

In this day and age it's not difficult to prove that the Creator exists.

No doubt it is possible for the faithful to be convinced of something they refuse to question. Your signature suggests that such proof is obvious yet offers nothing substantial.

However there is abundant evidence that a creator is not necessary and is hence a superfluous concept.