Are you an atheist? (7 Viewers)

[Fifty2One]

No, only Christmas and Easter

That is still not fair for other beliefs, even the orthodox christian beliefs are at a disadvantage even if it is only 20% of the statutory holidays.

 

[Mike375]

I see, you get to pick which parts are god's word and which aren't. How convenient.

No, that is not the case.

In the case of Peter, the Bible simply relates that he denied Christ 3 times. That has nothing to do with the word of God.

 

[Alisa]

Submitting to bin Laden is submitting to bin Laden. What about submitting to Hitler

It is very simple. if you submit then you follow what that person, god or whatever wants. if you don't follow what they want then there is no submission.

bin Laden's followers are adhering to the religion of islam, which tells them that they must attain martyrdom to enter paradise, just as christianity tells it's followers that they must believe in god to get to heaven. bin Laden is preaching the word of allah to his followers. Therefore, his followers are submitting to the will of allah.

Many of Hitler's followers were devout catholics. I know we discussed this before, but I will say it again. It is not unreasonable to suppose that the beliefs that catholics held about jews at that time in history contributed to their willingness to commit atrocities against them.

Throughout history, what god has wanted appears to be lots and lots of violence, and people have faithfully submitted to those desires.

 

[Mike375]

That's handy.

Let me guess - the bits that can be backed up with any kind of evidence come from the big man himself, and the rest are just made up? When I used to to go to Sunday school as a kid, they sort of gave me the impression that the whole thing could be taken as true.

True, yes, but not all of the Bible is relating God's word. The Bible is both covering God's word as well as different events that took place.

 

[Alisa]

That is still not fair for other beliefs, even the orthodox christian beliefs are at a disadvantage even if it is only 20% of the statutory holidays.

I think it is interesting that out of all the christian holidays, those are the two everyone gets, seeing as how those are the two most commercialized holidays. I think most people, at least in the U.S., celebrate christmas for santa and easter for the easter bunny, not for their true religous meanings. It is like on memorial day, every has a BBQ. Noone sits around and mourns like they are supposed to. Plus, I've never worked anywhere that wouldn't let you use sick time for other holidays you want to observe.

 

[Alc]

True, yes, but not all of the Bible is relating God's word. The Bible is both covering God's word as well as different events that took place.

So who gets to pick the true bits?
If , for example, one sentence should be taken literally while the next is just a bit of decorative storytelling, why doesn't the church make this known? Surely, it would help convert more non-believers if the less plausible stuff were admitted to be made-up?

 

[Alisa]

True, yes, but not all of the Bible is relating God's word. The Bible is both covering God's word as well as different events that took place.

According to the bible, god sacraficed his own son. Is that the word of god that we should follow? Or does that fall under the category of different events that took place?

 

[Mike375]

bin Laden's followers are adhering to the religion of islam, which tells them that they must attain martyrdom to enter paradise, just as christianity tells it's followers that they must believe in god to get to heaven. bin Laden is preaching the word of allah to his followers. Therefore, his followers are submitting to the will of allah.

bin Laden might be lying to them. "which tells them that they must attain martyrdom to enter paradise". I am not up on the Islam end of town. I am just handling the Christian department

Many of Hitler's followers were devout catholics. I know we discussed this before, but I will say it again. It is not unreasonable to suppose that the beliefs that catholics held about jews at that time in history contributed to their willingness to commit atrocities against them.

You still are missing the simple point of what submission means. If the person submits to God then he automatically follows God's teachings. in other words he will not have conflict with Gods wishes.

Throughout history, what god has wanted appears to be lots and lots of violence, and people have faithfully submitted to those desires.

You have yet to demonstrate that. Just because Hitler does this or that or a catholic does this or that does not mean it was God's word.

 

[Alisa]

So who gets to pick the true bits?
If , for example, one sentence should be taken literally while the next is just a bit of decorative storytelling, why doesn't the church make this known? Surely, it would help convert more non-believers if the less plausible stuff were admitted to be made-up?

I agree. Once you ask, who gets to pick the true bits, then you are begging the question, on what basis are they determining truth? Since we already know there is no actual evidence for any of it, there must be some other basis. If the determination of what is true depends on on our modern moral standards, then it can hardly be argued that the bible PROVIDES those moral standards.

 

[Mike375]

So who gets to pick the true bits?
If , for example, one sentence should be taken literally while the next is just a bit of decorative storytelling, why doesn't the church make this known? Surely, it would help convert more non-believers if the less plausible stuff were admitted to be made-up?

It is not a case of picking what is true and what is false.

One part of the Bible is God's word and the other part is relating events that occurred. Many of the events are the opposite of God's word.

Surely you realise (perhaps you don't) that many atheists agree with sections of the Bible and the sections are those that relate events.

 

[Alisa]

bin Laden might be lying to them. "which tells them that they must attain martyrdom to enter paradise". I am not up on the Islam end of town. I am just handling the Christian department

You still are missing the simple point of what submission means. If the person submits to God then he automatically follows God's teachings. in other words he will not have conflict with Gods wishes.

You have yet to demonstrate that. Just because Hitler does this or that or a catholic does this or that does not mean it was God's word.

As far as bin Laden is concerned, the concept of martydom, killing the infidels, etc. is all found in the quran. bin Laden didn't make it up.

So now you are saying, well the bible isn't really god's word, and all religious leaders throughout history haven't been preaching god's word. Then what is god's word and how are you supposed to submit to it?

 

[Alc]

I agree. Once you ask, who gets to pick the true bits, then you are begging the question, on what basis are they determining truth? Since we already know there is no actual evidence for any of it, there must be some other basis. If the determination of what is true depends on on our modern moral standards, then it can hardly be argued that the bible PROVIDES those moral standards.

I keep coming back to the TV shows based around police investigations.
A recurring theme is that, once a cop has been shown to be corrupt or have made a mistake whn securing a conviction, they have to reopen all past investigations involving the same person.

If it's accepted that any of the bible didn't come from God, where do we draw the line? It's hardly surprising that so many people who class themselves as Christians get to pick and choose which parts of the bible they adhere to.

 

[Mike375]

According to the bible, god sacraficed his own son. Is that the word of god that we should follow? Or does that fall under the category of different events that took place?

Jesus died on the cross to atone for our sins. How you can relate that to man today sacrificing his son is beyond me

 

[Mike375]

As far as bin Laden is concerned, the concept of martydom, killing the infidels, etc. is all found in the quran. bin Laden didn't make it up.

So now you are saying, well the bible isn't really god's word, and all religious leaders throughout history haven't been preaching god's word. Then what is god's word and how are you supposed to submit to it?

bin Laden is not a follower of the Bible.

 

[Rich]

Jesus died on the cross to atone for our sins. How you can relate that to man today sacrificing his son is beyond me

God sanctioned it

 

[Mike375]

I keep coming back to the TV shows based around police investigations.
A recurring theme is that, once a cop has been shown to be corrupt or have made a mistake whn securing a conviction, they have to reopen all past investigations involving the same person.

If it's accepted that any of the bible didn't come from God, where do we draw the line? It's hardly surprising that so many people who class themselves as Christians get to pick and choose which parts of the bible they adhere to.

I find it amazing that you and Alisa can't distinguish between God's teachings and events that are related in the Bible.

Following your logic God wants us to deny Him 3 times.

 

[Mike375]

God sanctioned it

Of course he did. But you have missed the point. God sacrificed Jesus to atone for our sins. How could that be possibly construed to mean man should sacrifice his son.

 

[Alisa]

bin Laden is not a follower of the Bible.

Oh, so the bible is the true word of god, but the quran isn't.

 

[Alisa]

Of course he did. But you have missed the point. God sacrificed Jesus to atone for our sins. How could that be possibly construed to mean man should sacrifice his son.

So god is one of those, do as I say not as I do types?

 

[Rich]

It is not a case of picking what is true and what is false.

One part of the Bible is God's word and the other part is relating events that occurred. .

Was Exodus chaptrs7-12 Gods word, or the demanding of the "first born"?