Getting Rid of the Electoral College Blight

[AccessBlaster]

Independent, not Democrat...

Virtually no democrats or republicans on this forum, almost all Independents. You would think we could all agree on something

 

[Thales750]

Virtually no democrats or republicans on this forum, almost all Independents. You would think we could all agree on something

We probably do, I personally have quite a few right leaning opinions. When I get here though, the level of self deception from some of these post invites me to take an anti-conservative stance.

You have to remember the biggest benefactors of a politically divided US is the money that controlls Congress. Everyone knows that we are on the verge of a global conflict, that our population numbers are not sustainable, and automation is going to eliminate virtually all employment. So they are in fear and clinging to some remnant of a former world they can understand.
Ultimately, some form of socialism paid for by the only people that will have all of the wealth in the world is coming, or they could make it where all of the poor people simply die off.
We have seen, in our lifetime, the end of factories providing a solid middle class for 30% of our population. That same 30% is now working in retail or food service for slave wages. Whose next?
People are scared shitless, and it shows in the contempt they hold against each other. Especially, on fairly anonymous forums like this.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Sorry but it's often hard to understand WTF you're talking about.

What Pat is talking about is the definition of a wetland that might even include something so ludicrous as an isolated puddle in your back yard after a heavy rain, which would suddenly require you to tear down a fence on your property line if the puddle would touch it or be just ever so slightly under it. And DON'T say it hasn't happened. All sorts of egregious rulings have come out of the bureaucrats. I'm just waiting to find out that the low spot on my sidewalk is another example of a wetland. It floods now and then when the rain is heavy enough.

Like requiring that a fishing boat have a catch inspector on board under salary of the boat's captain but answering to Wildlife & Fisheries, never mind that the profit margin on most boats where that applied was less than one sailor's yearly salary. That case was the one that got Chevron Deference finally knocked out. The wetlands cases and many recent ATFE cases are examples of Executive Branch overreach.

 

[Pat Hartman]

Sorry but it's often hard to understand WTF you're talking about.

Good Excuse.

 

[Thales750]

What Pat is talking about is the definition of a wetland that might even include something so ludicrous as an isolated puddle in your back yard after a heavy rain, which would suddenly require you to tear down a fence on your property line if the puddle would touch it or be just ever so slightly under it. And DON'T say it hasn't happened. All sorts of egregious rulings have come out of the bureaucrats. I'm just waiting to find out that the low spot on my sidewalk is another example of a wetland. It floods now and then when the rain is heavy enough.

Like requiring that a fishing boat have a catch inspector on board under salary of the boat's captain but answering to Wildlife & Fisheries, never mind that the profit margin on most boats where that applied was less than one sailor's yearly salary. That case was the one that got Chevron Deference finally knocked out. The wetlands cases and many recent ATFE cases are examples of Executive Branch overreach.

This is pure paranoia Doc, based on exaggerations and fact sifting. Like I said before, the most powerful tools the puppet masters use is making y'all feel like victims.

They use innumeracy to achieve that goal. Innumeracy and playing to people's sense of entitlement is the bases for this example of extreme brainwashing.

Here is the process:

Global Corporation want's to eliminate pollution regulations. They buy Congress, the News Media, they plant logical sounding talking heads in the morning drive to work slot and bombard people with fake news, all the while convincing them that any other source of information is fake.

After a while, the Red hearing show up right here making you see exactly what people like Pat that completely ignore any info other the party line. And, you defender her opinions, even as I suspect you actually believe that overreach was justified in many cases. Cases that otherwise would have lead to the cancer deaths of millions of more people than it already has.

You are a solder for those that are enslaving, and killing, us.

 

[AccessBlaster]

This is pure paranoia Doc, based on exaggerations and fact sifting.

Have you read your own posts?

What's really hard to understand is why anyone would want four more years of Biden Harris it's nuts.

 

[Thales750]

Have you read your own posts?

What's really hard to understand is why anyone would want four more years of Biden Harris it's nuts.

I was referring to a single issue.

The Chevron Case.

By the way, the level of of power that it turns over to the Global Corporations sets us back the the days of Standard Oil, and US Steel.

Living on the Gulf Coast should be enough for anyone to understand just how much power should be given to the EPA. Doc has known many people that have died from exposure to Gulf Coast pollution. He is ignoring that by waving the banner of freedom based on less regulation for the polluters.

Nothing your news sources say, even in their most exaggerated anti-Biden format can compare to that.

Freedom, what does that actually mean?

 

[The_Doc_Man]

This is pure paranoia Doc, based on exaggerations and fact sifting.

If it is actually happening, it is NOT PARANOIA!!!!!!!! Open your eyes to reality.

Freedom, what does that actually mean?

Well, going by your example, it means you have the right to be wrong.

 

[Thales750]

If it is actually happening, it is NOT PARANOIA!!!!!!!! Open your eyes to reality.


Well, going by your example, it means you have the right to be wrong.

Like I said before, you are willing to have millions of our people die from cancer, just so the Global Corporations can have the freedom to make unlimited profit. Your unwillingness to even consider that scenario should give you cause for concern.

I get it that it doesn't. You are willing to severely limits government by handing the power over to the Capitalist.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Your unwillingness to even consider that scenario should give you cause for concern.

You OBVIOUSLY have not seen my other non-tech posts. I am very much against pollution. The things to which I object are ARBITRARY and CAPRICIOUS rules made for the sake of rules by agencies that seem to be on a power trip. Which happens all too often. I have ALREADY considered that pollution scenario and that's one reason why the EPA wasn't in my list of agencies needing to be throttled.

So BACK OFF on that topic. You clearly know nothing about my long-term stated preferences. Now if you had started with climate change, I would have to say I don't believe in a strong case for anthropogenic climate effects. We are exiting from an ice age. Paleontology clearly shows that things get hotter when that happens. It may be that man contributed a LITTLE bit to climate effects. But compared to the other pollution, the CO2 and methane are lesser evils.

 

[Thales750]

You OBVIOUSLY have not seen my other non-tech posts. I am very much against pollution. The things to which I object are ARBITRARY and CAPRICIOUS rules made for the sake of rules by agencies that seem to be on a power trip. Which happens all too often. I have ALREADY considered that pollution scenario and that's one reason why the EPA wasn't in my list of agencies needing to be throttled.

So BACK OFF on that topic. You clearly know nothing about my long-term stated preferences. Now if you had started with climate change, I would have to say I don't believe in a strong case for anthropogenic climate effects. We are exiting from an ice age. Paleontology clearly shows that things get hotter when that happens. It may be that man contributed a LITTLE bit to climate effects. But compared to the other pollution, the CO2 and methane are lesser evils.

I can only go by what you say. And then you went to Climate Change. Climate change is another Red Hearing, for both sides. It's simply a way to change a real discussion into a BS one.

The opposite to the "ARBITRARY and CAPRICIOUS rules" argument is that the entire set of laws that are important to individual liberties are being written by the lobbyist. Our Congress cant even get anything done for the People. How many decades will the SEC, or the FAA, or any number of other agencies, tasked with protecting the American People, have to wait for our bought and paid for Congress to enact legislation to correct these problems.

Those powers that these Agencies use to protect us, force the offender to go to court to prove overreach or misinterpretation of the laws. Your plan, and the plan of the overly conservative court, is to make no protection until congress acts.

What a complete farce being visited upon the People, all in the name of freedom. I ask again, how do you define freedom? Freedom for whom?

It sounds like your version would give the perpetrators the power to police themselves. Admittedly there must be some balance here, but the courts have granted wide immunity (to the Worst Offenders) from doing the right things.

I will be happy to have a conversation about Climate Change and Pragmatism at some point in the future. Let's see if you are willing to find at least as much compromise on your position as have.

 

[Pat Hartman]

Like I said before, the most powerful tools the puppet masters use is making y'all feel like victims.

Are you calling me a liar? This isn't second hand. It isn't a tweet from the internet. It is first hand knowledge. I've seen the illegal diversion. I saw the sludge accumulation. I saw the ruling from the EPA. My friends actually reported the illegal diversion the spring following when they purchased the house. That's when they first noticed the waterfall dropping onto their property from the street behind them during the spring melt. That's when they got caught up in the morass of bureaucracy. No one could do anything. It seems that the builder they purchased from had died and his company declared bankruptcy and so there was no one to go after for the violation. Having no official recourse and not wanting the runoff going through the back yard, they dug a ditch to divert the runoff into the woods that separated them from their neighbors and forgot about the problem until they took out the permit for the pool and were denied.

Living on the Gulf Coast should be enough for anyone to understand just how much power should be given to the EPA.

You don't have a clue how much damage the Army Corps of Engineers has done to the Mississippi delta by their attempts to stop the annual floods. By building levees and other structures, they may stop local flooding but they are impeding the flow of silt down the river and are effectively washing away the delta by preventing its constant rebuilding.

Coastal Land Loss in the Mississippi River Delta

Since the 1930s, Louisiana has lost nearly 1,900 square miles of land, an area roughly the size of Delaware. Many factors have contributed to this collapse.

mississippiriverdelta.org

Sometimes we simply should not mess with Mother Nature. Things that are being done to "save" New Orleans are causing the destruction of the delta. Unless someone comes up with a better plan, this is a zero-sum game. Save New Orleans or save the delta. Maybe the parts of New Orleans that are flooded every few years need to be left as nature preserves. The parts of the city that sit on high ground will survive. Why should every property owner in the country have to pay increased insurance rates to rebuild New Orleans whenever it floods. We don't need to talk about all the barrier islands where rich people build McMansions and we subsidize their insurance. When we used to build unheated shacks that were uninsured, the owners simply paid to rebuild them if they wanted to.

My town has a pretty nice stretch of beach on LI Sound. When I first moved here 50 years ago, about half the houses in the peninsula at the southern end of town were unheated summer cottages. Barely more than shacks. The other half were on high ground and more sturdily built and many were permanent homes. Ordinary families owned them and shared them with friends and family. Now the shacks are gone and in their place are three-story year-round homes. Many built at ground level. Now due to a state statute they are all being raised at least 10 feet. So now they are million dollar properties where you can reach off your porch and practically touch your neighbor's house. And they're all insured.

I have also railed against pollution in general. You think it is "big business" that is causing all the problems. You are wrong. In the case of the gentrification of our barrier islands, it is rich people who want a water view. And they're getting all of us to subsidize the cost of rebuilding their trophy properties after every major storm. Not a bad deal.

Like I said before, you are willing to have millions of our people die from cancer, just so the Global Corporations can have the freedom to make unlimited profit. Your unwillingness to even consider that scenario should give you cause for concern.

You are so wrong and totally blind that it is mind blowing. How come the Dem's didn't get behind RFK Jr and his campaign to stop big business from poisoning us all? Trump, you know that evil orange man, is all in with RJK.

 

[Pat Hartman]

Climate change is another Red Hearing, for both sides.

Not possible. One side has it all wrong and insists that you (not them) revert to stone age living. The other side is looking at the issue rationally and offering realistic ways to address issues.

 

[moke123]

How come the Dem's didn't get behind RFK Jr and his campaign to stop big business from poisoning us all?

Not sure you've noticed but as kids today say "he's a little cray cray"

Trump, you know that evil orange man, is all in with RJK.

Glad he's found a home. He'll fit in just fine.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Not sure you've noticed but as kids today say "he's a little cray cray"

Argumentum ad hominem... what a wonderful attack.

Pbbbbt. I figure if you are going to resort to a trivial attack, I'll respond in kind.

 

[Thales750]

Are you calling me a liar? This isn't second hand. It isn't a tweet from the internet. It is first hand knowledge. I've seen the illegal diversion. I saw the sludge accumulation. I saw the ruling from the EPA. My friends actually reported the illegal diversion the spring following when they purchased the house. That's when they first noticed the waterfall dropping onto their property from the street behind them during the spring melt. That's when they got caught up in the morass of bureaucracy. No one could do anything. It seems that the builder they purchased from had died and his company declared bankruptcy and so there was no one to go after for the violation. Having no official recourse and not wanting the runoff going through the back yard, they dug a ditch to divert the runoff into the woods that separated them from their neighbors and forgot about the problem until they took out the permit for the pool and were denied.


You don't have a clue how much damage the Army Corps of Engineers has done to the Mississippi delta by their attempts to stop the annual floods. By building levees and other structures, they may stop local flooding but they are impeding the flow of silt down the river and are effectively washing away the delta by preventing its constant rebuilding.

Coastal Land Loss in the Mississippi River Delta

Since the 1930s, Louisiana has lost nearly 1,900 square miles of land, an area roughly the size of Delaware. Many factors have contributed to this collapse.

mississippiriverdelta.org

Sometimes we simply should not mess with Mother Nature. Things that are being done to "save" New Orleans are causing the destruction of the delta. Unless someone comes up with a better plan, this is a zero-sum game. Save New Orleans or save the delta. Maybe the parts of New Orleans that are flooded every few years need to be left as nature preserves. The parts of the city that sit on high ground will survive. Why should every property owner in the country have to pay increased insurance rates to rebuild New Orleans whenever it floods. We don't need to talk about all the barrier islands where rich people build McMansions and we subsidize their insurance. When we used to build unheated shacks that were uninsured, the owners simply paid to rebuild them if they wanted to.

My town has a pretty nice stretch of beach on LI Sound. When I first moved here 50 years ago, about half the houses in the peninsula at the southern end of town were unheated summer cottages. Barely more than shacks. The other half were on high ground and more sturdily built and many were permanent homes. Ordinary families owned them and shared them with friends and family. Now the shacks are gone and in their place are three-story year-round homes. Many built at ground level. Now due to a state statute they are all being raised at least 10 feet. So now they are million dollar properties where you can reach off your porch and practically touch your neighbor's house. And they're all insured.

I have also railed against pollution in general. You think it is "big business" that is causing all the problems. You are wrong. In the case of the gentrification of our barrier islands, it is rich people who want a water view. And they're getting all of us to subsidize the cost of rebuilding their trophy properties after every major storm. Not a bad deal.

You are so wrong and totally blind that it is mind blowing. How come the Dem's didn't get behind RFK Jr and his campaign to stop big business from poisoning us all? Trump, you know that evil orange man, is all in with RJK

I'm not calling you a liar, I'm saying you cannot comprehend scale.
I have actually studied the problem with the Mississippi delta for some time now. I don't really see how that compares to regulating emissions.
I manage a company that engineers coastal homes. As usual, you only see facts that support your world view. Of course the water front properties have been bought up by affluent people,that is one of the perks of being good at navigating a capitalist society.

Why are you so fixated in supporting every aspect of Trump and so possessed in blaiming everything on the Dems?

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I wonder about the validity of some of your news sources.

I wonder if you are getting biased news. YOU are supporting a regime that is trying its DAMNDEST to be like the government in the novel 1984.

 

[Thales750]

I wonder about the validity of some of your news sources.

I wonder if you are getting biased news. YOU are supporting a regime that is trying its DAMNDEST to be like the government in the novel 1984.

Regime in this context is a Trump word. That's his standard 7th grade command of our language. So far in this conversation I presented logic based on numbers to present the fallacies of our Electoral process, then I brought up reasoned examples of cases where agencies using discretionary practices can increase the protection of the People.
How exactly does that make me a supporter of a regime. Trump insited a riot on our capital, he tried to strong arm a Georgian official into altering votes.
What exactly are the qualifications of creating a regime? Does interfering with the peaceful transfer of power qualify?

 

[The_Doc_Man]

I presented logic based on numbers to present the fallacies of our Electoral process

Except that they are not fallacies - they are features. LEGAL features. The states have the right to choose how they vote and what that vote means in the context of the Presidential election. Your numbers are pointless because they amount to sour grapes.

 

[Thales750]

Except that they are not fallacies - they are features. LEGAL features. The states have the right to choose how they vote and what that vote means in the context of the Presidential election. Your numbers are pointless because they amount to sour grapes.

They were necessary 250 years ago. If the EC was leaning Left you would have a fit. Personally part of me says leave Texas alone two more elections cycles and we won't see a republican President forever.

I don't have sour grapes you are projecting your own feeling on to me. The President really makes less difference than people think I mean Trump inherited one of the most power economy in 50 years and it only took him 4 to ruin it, but it didn't stop him from taking credit for it. Then all the fools blamed Biden for the high gas prices, but they didn't praise him when it went down.

Propaganda controls y'alls thinking, not reality, nothing can change that.