Speak English

[Rich]

DeWalt is made in China now.

Thats as maybe but they're still charging American prices the same as Levi

 

[jsanders]

Why don’t we start a home improvement thread? I want to keep this one going in the right direction.

 

[RV]

Make an effort to buy American. Even if you can't, at least make the retail stores know you want to. Ask to see American made models first and leave a few stores if they don't have any

It's all 'bout simple economical rules Pat.
We simply can't compete with labor rates and productivity and not even with quality of goods provided by the new booming economical hot spots.
In fact, a mass refusal to buy any foreign produced goods would end in a disastrous fall down of your countries economics.

Most people will go for the most reasonable prices and give a damn where the product would've been produced, as it has been since the first day men came around

Better hugely invest in the new booming hot spots so you do have a considerable saying on how "they" operate on "your" market.

Apart from that, you'll not be able to prevent China becoming one of the main market leaders, or better the market leader.

RV

 

[jsanders]

Americans spend over $1000 apiece at Wal-Mart each year. Only the upper middle class and above can afford to shop other places for the same stuff.

The rub, is that the very people that shop there are the ones paying the price.

I hire the Spanish guys myself to do menial and some not so menial jobs at my small business. I could not compete with the people that do it, if I didn’t.

But the language thing is something we need to correct or we will loose something more important than preeminence in the world economy, we will loose the culture of can do and the dream of a better life for our children.

 

[Rich]

I hire the Spanish guys myself to do menial and some not so menial jobs at my small business.

.

Do they speak Spanish?

I could not compete with the people that do it, if I didn’t.

If you can't compete then you're using inefficient methodology, you need to invest for the future.
I mean for starters you could do one of those menial tasks yourself instead of spending so much time here, scratch one softop

 

[Pat Hartman]

Thats as maybe but they're still charging American prices the same as Levi

That's the rub. Companies SAY they need to lower the cost of doing business but what do they do with the money they save? They use it to increase profits thereby giving their top level management larger bonuses. Where do profits go? Who knows. They are certainly not reinvesting in their American plants to keep them profitable. They are taking the money offshore and building facilities in places where it is cheaper to do business so they can make even higher profits.

A major American auto parts manufacturer just filed for bancrupcy protection a few weeks ago. They said they needed to pay their non-management workers 60% less but they were going to increase their management salaries. I'm wondering who got the company in financial dificulty in the beginning and why are those people being rewarded?

The American public has no say over how corporations spend their money but Congress generally rewards them for spending it overseas when they should be rewarding them for spending it at home.

The Buy Americian suggestion was directed at Americans. For the rest of the world, buy whatever makes sense. Since there are a number of products that no longer seem to be made in the US, when I have to break down and buy one, I will buy one from a foreign company. I will not reward Maytag or any other US "in name only" company with my business. If I have to buy a foreign made product, I will buy it from a foreign company!

 

[jsanders]

Thought I add a new twist, more on the cost of illegal aliens.

Everyone is always talking about the health care cost and the social cost of having such a large population of illegal immigrants. But one that is not often mentioned is the disproportionate cost to funding ratio on public schools.

Many, if not most, illegal aliens rent a single family home and have several families living in them, as much as 10 or 12 kids or even more. The economics dictate this arrangement.

As you all know in America, public schools are funded by assessments on real-estate. So a normal American family pays the taxes on one American dwelling and that establishes the ratio of cost per student per household. Now people without children pay anyway but we all benefited one way or another from this program.

But for the illegals, the dynamics are much different. The school system is educating multiple families on the taxes collected from a single dwelling. In addition to this, these students require special attention. They must have Spanish speaking teacher to accommodate them.

Fortunately this immigration problem is being raised in our current gubernatorial races

 

[Kraj]

I've not said anything on this topic so far (at least I don't think I have), so I'm just going to add this:

I live and work in downtown Chicago. Granted, the situation regarding illegal immigrants in Illinois is vastly different than in Texas, BUT...

...every day I encounter at least a half dozen panhandlers. When I'm walking to work, going to lunch, going to dinner, stepping out in front of my bulding. They're everywhere. In my two years living here (not to mention travel to other cities), I've seen about 3-4 different white panhandlers, dozens of black ones, but not one single latino. Ever.

In a discussion about whether an entire demographic is a drain on society or not, I think it's an interesting observation.

 

[The Stoat]

There is a flavour of hypocrisy to some of the replies in this thread.

The West particularly the US has championed free market economics across the world. This has more often than not benefited rich countries who can use there greater economic leverage to prevent fair competion. A good example are the massive European and US farm subsidies which have made it extremely difficult for poor countries to compete on a level playing field even though their produce is cheaper at source.

There are no complaints when the system is functioning as intended i.e. when it allows unfair advantage in the global market; so how can complaints be justified when companies use the system to reduce overheads to make greater profit.

It's free market capaitalist economics in action a system of our own creation. As rich nations we can either choose to take the rough with the smooth or divise an alternative.
If we will not allow poor countries to be protectionist about their markets we cannot justify protectionism for ourselves.

If you want to protect your jobs from cheap foreign labour or cheap Chinese imports then the only logical alternative is to cease trading with other countries and rescind the global free trade agreements, close the borders and practice isolationism. Logical yes, viable No.

TS

 

[jsanders]

There is a flavour of hypocrisy to some of the replies in this thread.

The West particularly the US has championed free market economics across the world. This has more often than not benefited rich countries who can use there greater economic leverage to prevent fair competion. A good example are the massive European and US farm subsidies which have made it extremely difficult for poor countries to compete on a level playing field even though their produce is cheaper at source.

There are no complaints when the system is functioning as intended i.e. when it allows unfair advantage in the global market; so how can complaints be justified when companies use the system to reduce overheads to make greater profit.

It's free market capaitalist economics in action a system of our own creation. As rich nations we can either choose to take the rough with the smooth or divise an alternative.
If we will not allow poor countries to be protectionist about their markets we cannot justify protectionism for ourselves.

If you want to protect your jobs from cheap foreign labour or cheap Chinese imports then the only logical alternative is to cease trading with other countries and rescind the global free trade agreements, close the borders and practice isolationism. Logical yes, viable No.

TS

That's an extreme oversimplification.

The people don’t want illegal immigration large corporations do.

Our government is being run by these same corporations. The distress you hear here is an attempt at voicing our views to get more people involved in the process of reacquiring our country.

This unabated and almost unregulated global trade is lowering the standard of living for Americans and Western Europeans alike. And all the while international companies continue to get a higher and higher percentage of the wealth.

No one says we need to stop using immigrants to provide the work force for the low paid jobs. We’re simply saying they should learn English and pay taxes. The taxes part is the fault of the corporation run government, not the immigrants themselves. Even the language part is partially because the lack of will to force change is dominated by Uncle/Big Business.

 

[Rich]

What's a panhandler?

 

[jsanders]

What's a panhandler?

Street Begger

 

[jsanders]

I've not said anything on this topic so far (at least I don't think I have), so I'm just going to add this:

I live and work in downtown Chicago. Granted, the situation regarding illegal immigrants in Illinois is vastly different than in Texas, BUT...

...every day I encounter at least a half dozen panhandlers. When I'm walking to work, going to lunch, going to dinner, stepping out in front of my bulding. They're everywhere. In my two years living here (not to mention travel to other cities), I've seen about 3-4 different white panhandlers, dozens of black ones, but not one single latino. Ever.

In a discussion about whether an entire demographic is a drain on society or not, I think it's an interesting observation.

The majority come here to work.

The system is flawed.

The employers get the benefits, while the middle class pays the price.

The society suffers when we are forced to adapt their language, instead of vice versa.
The country suffers when immigrants aren’t required to learn the basis for our freedoms. These are new developments in America, previous generations of immigrants assimilated joyfully into the society. This latest wave is trying to bring theirs here.

Can you blame them we don’t force them to adapt, we actually alienate them by not requiring them to adapt.

It’s a double edged sword.

 

[jsanders]

You guys have been missing my insightful repartees, haven’t you?

 

[The Stoat]

That's an extreme oversimplification.

The people don’t want illegal immigration large corporations do.

Our government is being run by these same corporations. The distress you hear here is an attempt at voicing our views to get more people involved in the process of reacquiring our country.

This unabated and almost unregulated global trade is lowering the standard of living for Americans and Western Europeans alike. And all the while international companies continue to get a higher and higher percentage of the wealth.

No one says we need to stop using immigrants to provide the work force for the low paid jobs. We’re simply saying they should learn English and pay taxes. The taxes part is the fault of the corporation run government, not the immigrants themselves. Even the language part is partially because the lack of will to force change is dominated by Uncle/Big Business.

Firstly I think any discourse on this subject is going to be a simplification. viz your second paragraph, This unabated...... But i'd like to think its a masterly summing up [Joke]

Secondly the US has the biggest % of private citizens investing in the stock market of any country. Unless you withdraw support for companies who practice these methods then they will continue to use them. The benefits these investors see are a direct consequence of the practices of these companies. But of course that will never actually happen as people are very good proposing sacrifices on the behalf of others but do little when their own pocket might suffer.

The fact is countries including the US continue to support such practices by voting for the proponents of them. If your government is run by big business and it's influence is malign then why support them? We often hear people say i dislike policy x but it's such a small issue i still feel i can support the party. Well this isn't a small issue. Economic competence is a fundamental election winning issue -well here it is - yet you continue to vote for people who you are arguing are give your jobs away, diluting your culture and lowering your standard of living. Why?

TS

 

[Kraj]

The employers get the benefits, while the middle class pays the price.

If there were no illegal workers, wouldn't the middle class also pay higher prices on goods and services these businesses provide?

 

[jsanders]

If there were no illegal workers, wouldn't the middle class also pay higher prices on goods and services these businesses provide?

Not really because the savings from using illegal aliens goes to the bottom line, and less to lower pricing.

The cheep imports actually do help the working class, in that it provides lower prices. But it is at the expense of adding more people to the lower wage class. Wal-Mart displaces small businesses that employ people at middle class pay and hires foreigners at lower than living wages.

 

[Kraj]

I'll buy that

 

[Rich]

But it is at the expense of adding more people to the lower wage class. Wal-Mart displaces small businesses that employ people at middle class pay and hires foreigners at lower than living wages.

Don't you have a minimum wage over there?

 

[Pat Hartman]

We have a minimum wage law but illegal aliens hardly have any recourse. We also have a president wo saw fit to dispense with minimum wage laws in the aftermath of Katrina. So, instead of New Orleans residents and local companies being employeed to rebuild their distroyed city, out of state companies are importing illegal aliens to do the work for slave wages. They are even advertising in Mexico and Central America. No papers are required and wages are low but the wages are still enough to attract more people. Especially with the potential of an amnesty.