Are you an atheist?

Are you an atheist?


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I have a question for our believing friends. Do you believe that heaven is a physical place to which bodies could ascend as Jesus is supposed to have done (see the book of Acts in the New Testament) and his mother as the Catholics believe. Or do you believe that it is just a metaphor for a spiritual afterlife. Or perhaps you have a different view as to what it is. Please let us know what you think

Our source book doesn't give sufficient data.

My guess is that since Jesus walked through doors after the resurrection, but was still touched physically by Thomas, and that he appeared "different", that we will be in at least one of the 3 physical dimensions that men know and understand but that there is a possibility our "new" bodies will be in several of the 9 or 21, or whatever number it is now, other dimensions.

There's also the possibility that I'm totally full of crap and have no clue, which is a pretty good bet too.

There wouldn't be much of a need for a new body if it were in the 3 dimensions we currently inhabit, though, IMHO. I find it very difficult to believe that heaven inhabits the 3 dimensions we inhabit in exactly the same way we inhabit them.

I'm not a Catholic and don't believe Mary ascended into heaven nor do I attribute any special diety status to her. I have little reverence for anything the pope proclaims (especially with regards to Mary), though I respect him as a fellow Christian. I respect other posters opinions on the matter, however.
 
I have a question for our believing friends. Do you believe that heaven is a physical place to which bodies could ascend as Jesus is supposed to have done (see the book of Acts in the New Testament) and his mother as the Catholics believe. Or do you believe that it is just a metaphor for a spiritual afterlife. Or perhaps you have a different view as to what it is. Please let us know what you think

If there is an after life it will be nothing like we can imagine. Kind of like if aliens set up shop on earth and their species have never had the sense of sight. The TV and monitor screen, the light bulb etc and etc would be totally meaningless. Ditto for another species who have never had the sense of hearing. You could not explain it to them.
 
If there is an after life it will be nothing like we can imagine. Kind of like if aliens set up shop on earth and their species have never had the sense of sight. The TV and monitor screen, the light bulb etc and etc would be totally meaningless. Ditto for another species who have never had the sense of hearing. You could not explain it to them.
You've got a thing for blind aliens, eh?
It was windscreens and windows last time, now it's TVs and monitors.:D
 
... Ditto for another species who have never had the sense of hearing. You could not explain it to them.

Kind of metaphorical way of explaining why colonessex seems adrift - :p
 
We'll remember to run your stuff by george when something goes over our head then :p
 
I have a question for our believing friends. Do you believe that heaven is a physical place to which bodies could ascend as Jesus is supposed to have done (see the book of Acts in the New Testament) and his mother as the Catholics believe. Or do you believe that it is just a metaphor for a spiritual afterlife. Or perhaps you have a different view as to what it is. Please let us know what you think

i agree with the concept that heaven is more an interpretation and that it is based on soul than physical. We are not Jesus in that although we were made by God, we're not God, nor Jesus, so maybe these laws won't apply to us. When the second coming happens, then it is believed that the earth will be reborn so yes, a physical form, but heaven..well, many believed by looking up you'll see heaven, yet scientists suggest that dimensions can exist between the very fabric of our existance?? perhaps a suggestion of scifi writers that dimensions exist a second ahead of ours so we cannot see them???

i go for soul based...(for those non-believers) where does the soul come from, or what happens to it?

:(
 
You mean to say that Heaven isn't up in the clouds? :eek:

As a believer, I do believe that there is a different plane of existence, aka Heaven. Not sure what it looks like, but I know it's okay to be there. I don't know if it is quite the paradise that is depicted in many religious tomes, but I do know that pain is relieved, as is suffering and unhappiness. I don't have any proof, but that is the privilege of belief. :D

And even though I believe in a deity, I am really not sure what it is. I was brought up Cathiolic, and man, that is hard to shake!!! I completely disagree with organized religion as a whole (which is why I am no longer a Catholic), and the fact that is has become something to fight about. Belief and faith is for you, and you alone, and who gives a crap what anyone else thinks?

That's my take.

Lisa
 
As I write this Shaneman's step daughter Kate is in theatre having a delicate operation to remove a cancer tumour in her spinal column, perhaps those who can will pray for her and those who can't will send best wishes to Shane and his family.

brian
 
As I write this Shaneman's step daughter Kate is in theatre having a delicate operation to remove a cancer tumour in her spinal column, perhaps those who can will pray for her and those who can't will send best wishes to Shane and his family.

brian

I'll do both.

Hope Kate has a speedy recovery and will be praying for Kate and the family (and other caregivers).
 
As I write this Shaneman's step daughter Kate is in theatre having a delicate operation to remove a cancer tumour in her spinal column, perhaps those who can will pray for her and those who can't will send best wishes to Shane and his family.

brian

Thanks Brian, very kind of you to post this. We have a website that we post on that tells how Kate is doing and what the latest is on her. There are also pictures of her there too. If anyone is interested in keeping up with her then PM me (so that I know it's legitimate) and I will reply with how to log onto the website.

Shane

P.S. Thanks for you words and your prayers George. BTW we are at MD Anderson so I believe we are in your neck of the woods.
 
Ok, I really did plan to let this thread die a peaceful death, but I just can't resist, did you guys see this article?

Pathogens and Prayer
By Rachel Zelkowitz
ScienceNOW Daily News
30 July 2008

The same diseases that plague humanity may also drive one of the fundamental elements of human culture, a new study suggests. A statistical analysis shows an association between higher rates of infectious disease and religious diversity around the world. The findings have already sparked debate within the academic community; critics are questioning the validity of the interpretation, and supporters say that the finding could offer a new perspective on why religions exist and what role they play in society.
The histories of individual religions are well-documented, but the evolution of religion itself is not well-understood. Two schools of thought have dominated the debate. The first views religion as a "byproduct" of other evolutionary adaptations such as larger brains. The second sees religion itself as adaptive, arguing that its role in social cohesiveness and other traits may have helped humans survive.

Corey Fincher, a biologist at the University of New Mexico, Albuquerque, falls into the second camp. Religion marks group members, he says, and can dissuade people from interacting with those outside the group. In areas with rampant infectious disease, this can be an advantage: No outsiders means no outside pathogens. Isolation can also prevent the exchange of ideas, or religions, in this case. That might lead to the rise of many independent religious systems.

Fincher and his colleagues looked for an association between a nation's religious diversity and rate of disease. They used Barrett's World Christian Encyclopedia to tally the number of religions in 219 countries and checked that against pervasiveness of disease in those areas, as documented in a global epidemiology database. There was a statistically significant, positive relationship between prevalence of disease and religious diversity, or religion richness. This persisted even when the researchers controlled for other variables that could impact the number of religions in a country: land area, population, religious freedom, and economic inequality. To correct for different patterns of human settlement in different parts of the world, they also tested the association of disease and religious diversity within the world's six major regions; the correlation still held true.

The results, published online yesterday by the Proceedings of the Royal Society B, offer a new answer to the question of why religions exist, Fincher says. "Religions may be for marking, but at a more fundamental level, social marking may in and of itself be due to infectious disease stress."

But Courtney Bender, a sociologist of religion at Columbia University, disagrees. Religions around the planet range from being very open to very closed to outsiders, she says: "You can't just say religions have strong boundaries." Indeed, traditional religious societies often interact with those outside their own group for trade or military alliances, says Richard Sosis, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Connecticut (U Conn), Storrs. Still, Sosis welcomes the study as a "great first step" in explaining religious diversity.

"I think [the researchers] are introducing an area that has been absent in the evolution of religion studies and is potentially an important one," says anthropologist Candace Alcorta, also of the U Conn. Alcorta notes that the existence of great empires in tropical, disease-rich areas--such as the Maya in the Yucatán Peninsula--seems to fly in the face of Fincher's findings. But the questions the study raises could inspire research that will move the field forward, she says.

As far as the two "schools of thought" go, I think both ideas are valid, and I don't see why they would be mutually exclusive.
 
"It may not be polite?" :rolleyes: You have a gift for understatement as well as arrogance. You are totally blind to anything but your own opinion and when anyone dares to disagree you resort to insult. Hardly the hallmark of the intellectual giant you appear to consider yourself to be.

Firstly Barry - just to stop you in your fantasy about yourself, as a gentleman, with reasonable, defendable views. And refer you back to you source of ire the best part of a year ago.

ON the jailing of a 60 year old women in Sudan for calling a teddy bear Mohammed.

It strikes me as stupid to foam at the mouth about this poor dear's mistreatment by a bunch of fanatical, closed minded, mediaeval tosspots running a tinpot, third world craphole under extremist sharia law.

Any Westerner dumb enough to work there and not know how the system works deserves what they get.

Why should we rush to bail her out?

But when faced with the fact that she had been released after pressure form the British government, and Islamic moderates, or bailed out by us as you put it - I invited you to say whther you were pleased or not -

Frankly couldn't give a toss.

Not exactly a logical response from what you argued previously is it? (If you can't see thats illogical then thats your problem)


It wasn't the what in my opinion was a heartless, vindictive , view of what was going on that unduly bothered me. Its the two faced element that defies logic that you threw in at the end.
I don't know why you are so indignant at the response you received.


You original opinion 8 months ago were hardly those of the gentleman you proport to be, neither is the dishonest masquerade 8 months after the fact, that you were the innocent cuddly victim of something here.

The fantasy you have of yourself as a gentleman is as pathetic and laughable as the fantasy of you being a rockstar!

Do carry on though!
 
gosh that's a seemingly personal attack, is it really neccesary just to proove a point?
 
gosh that's a seemingly personal attack, is it really neccesary just to proove a point?

Oh golly, I think you made a little error in your spelling there. I wonder if anyone might notice? :D
 

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