Are you an atheist?

[Vassago]

I was not forced onto any religion as a child, which is why I have such an open mind today. Sure, I went to church because my friends did, but it was a nondenominational church. I think that also helped keep me with an open mind.

The OT vs NT argument is one of my favorites. It seems Christians pick and choose when the OT should be followed and when it shouldn't. For example, the OT is often quoted in anti-gay rallies, but when someone quotes a verse such as the one where a woman should be stoned to death if she is not a virgin on her wedding night, suddenly the OT doesn't matter anymore.

 

[Vassago]

And as far as Muslims and how they treat their women, how many Muslims have you known? Are you basing your opinion solely on what you see or hear through third parties? Don't assume the news is always telling you the truth. There is a huge difference between Muslims and Muslim extremists just like there is a huge difference between Christians and Christian extremists (think the LDS group in Texas that forced 12 year olds into marriage and childbirth or Westboro baptist and their message of hate).

 

[Dick7Access]

Vassago,
First let me apologize for calling you Galaxiom. How did you know I was addressing you? You have a lot of insight. You are absolute right about Christian being selective about picking and choosing what fits their ideas from the OT. My position is the OT is interesting reading but doesn’t have a binding on my life. Your right also about the news media my favorite statement is that the only section of the newspaper that tells the truth is the comics. <G> As far as how many Muslim I have meet, probable many more than the average person, as until just recently my wife and I traveled in an RV all over the US and met a lot of Muslims. To be truthful it still not a fair sample, but then again I have a problem telling the difference from a Muslim and an extreme Muslim just as I have trouble telling a true Christian from a so called Christian. Some as you mention are wacky, if not downright criminal. Then again my assessment of a true Christian is not everybody’s assessment. The Westboro jerks called me a homo.

 

[Lightwave]

Sadly I've met a few agnostics and atheists who I would recommend you stear clear of...

- extremists no matter what their persuasion tend to be scary.

 

[Dick7Access]

Churches I have belonged to:
Gun Clubs I have belong to:
Military Unit I have been in;
Political organization I have belonged to:
Recreation organization I have belonged to:
Police Department I was in:
Factories I worked in:
College I attended:
All had kooks in them. In fact in some, I was the only sane one <G>

 

[recyan]

General, Not in reference to any particular post.

Believe nothing
no matter where you read it
or who has said, not even if
I have said it, unless it agrees
with your own reason and
your own common sense.
---- Buddha


Don't just teach your children
to read ....
Teach them to question
what they read.
Teach them to question
Everything!
---------- George Carlin


Those who stand for
NOTHING
fall for
ANYTHING


I am thankful
for all those difficult people
in my life, they have shown
me exactly who I do not
want to be.

 

[Galaxiom]

Galaxiom what religion were you brought up in before you became an unbeliever.

I was notionally a Presbyterian because that was my mother's faith. To be honest I don't think she really took religion that seriously. She did teach Sunday school as a teenager but if anything I think that ultimately led her to a somewhat cynical view of the church.

My father believed that people went to church on Sunday to ask forgiveness for what they had done that week and then go back to do it all again. He also told me to believe nothing I hear and only half of what I see.

I went to Sunday school from quite young. My older brother, younger sister and I would walk the few blocks to the Methodist Sunday School. (BTW We were doing this before the United Church formed from Pbtyn and Methodists.)

I didn't mind the colouring in but as I contemplated the stories they told us it seemed implausible and somehow hollow. I might have been seven or eight when we stopped going.

My brother had already stopped going and one Sunday morning I suggested to my sister that we would rather stay home. She agreed and I told my mother. Mum said that was fine. That was the end of it.

When I was twelve I debated the religious instruction teacher at school about the bases for her beliefs and she never came back again. None of us told our teachers she wasn't turning up and I guess she didn't either. We were unsupervised for several weeks until a teacher walked past and noticed.

However I actually consider myself to be a quite spiritual person but there are no gods in my sense of spirituality.

My disdain is for religion because it is a parasite that feeds on spirituality and injects poison into the wounds it makes.

 

[aziz rasul]

How about the one about bones being made of "chewed flesh"?

Let's face it, you can't even see what is in front of you because you are completely bewitched by a ridiculous book written by ancient, ignorant, misogynist men.

You have been indoctrinated by arrogant fools since the day you were born, like dozens of generations of your ancestors before you and wouldn't recognise a sensible thought on the subject if you tripped over it.

Page 40-46 in http://www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/quran/qms.pdf gives some more information about your first comment in the quote above.

Also see http://www.quranandscience.com/human/135-dr-keith-moore-confirms-embryology-in-quran.html

The Qur’an was given to us by God and was not written by man.

I studied Islam voluntarily 34 years ago as an adult. I was not taught anything about Islam for the first 20 years of my life, so how can you judge me and say I was indoctrinated when you know nothing about me. I would suggest you stick to facts that you know about rather than making unwarranted assumptions. As far as ‘sensible thought’ is concerned, I could throw that back in your face, as you clearly show very little of that yourself.

 

[Rabbie]

The Qur’an was given to us by God and was not written by man.

That's just an opinion with no evidence to support it. SOme people make the same claims for the book of Mormon which I am sure you reject.

 

[aziz rasul]

Because he/she/it doesn't actually exist

That's just an opinion with no evidence to support it.

The fact that the Qur'an has verses regarding provable science which were unknown at the time and also all verses regarding provable are correct and unambiguous tells me that no man could have written.

 

[Galaxiom]

The fact that the Qur'an has verses regarding provable science which were unknown at the time and also all verses regarding provable are correct and unambiguous tells me that no man could have written.

Like life being made from water and bones from "chewed flesh"? Or the Universe being unfurled like a curtain?

You can read anything into it if you start by presuming it is perfect.

The misogynist crap the Qur'an contains tells me it was definitely written by a man.

 

[Rabbie]

That's just an opinion with no evidence to support it.

The fact that the Qur'an has verses regarding provable science which were unknown at the time and also all verses regarding provable are correct and unambiguous tells me that no man could have written.

Give clear examples of these verses so we can judge the accuracy of your claims.

Also, do you regard the Book of Mormon as being written by God? If not explain the difference. If you do believe that then why aren't you a member of the Mormon Church

 

[Galaxiom]

Does anyone know a fact or statement in the Bible that disagrees with true Science?

The opening verses of the Book of Genesis regarding 6 earthly days of creation of the universe.

That is an odd one for a Muslim to point out considering the Qur'an concurs with this value.

Surat Al-'A`rāf 7/54: Indeed, your Lord is Allah , who created the heavens and earth in six days ....

Surat Al-Furqān 25/59: He who created the heavens and the earth and what is between them in six days ...

Surat As-Sajdah 32/4: It is Allah who created the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them in six days ...

Surat Qāf 50/38: And We did certainly create the heavens and earth and what is between them in six days ...

Surat Al-Ĥadīd 57/4: It is He who created the heavens and earth in six days ...

Is it because you prefer the eight days of Surat Fuşşilat?

Surat Fuşşilat 41/9: Say, "Do you indeed disbelieve in He who created the earth in two days and attribute to Him equals? That is the Lord of the worlds."

41/10 : And He placed on the earth firmly set mountains over its surface, and He blessed it and determined therein its [creatures'] sustenance in four days without distinction

41/11 : Then He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, "Come [into being], willingly or by compulsion." They said, "We have come willingly."

41/12 : And He completed them as seven heavens within two days and inspired in each heaven its command. And We adorned the nearest heaven with lamps and as protection. That is the determination of the Exalted in Might, the Knowing.

2 + 4 + 2 = 8

So far you claim for a match with proven science is looking pretty shaky too.

Like the Bible, the Qu'ran has the Sun created after the Earth.

 

[Galaxiom]

The Qur'an has seven circular (ie flat) earths one under another. Clearly they must be flat otherwise how else would they stack?

There are seven heavens. The stars are on the lowest level (ie this side of the Sun and Moon)

All plants and animals are formed as products of creation. Adam and Eve were the first humans Allah created.

The Qur'an is rubbish written by a disgusting and amoral man.

 

[Galaxiom]

Also you might want to be careful not to bump into one of those "invisible pillars" holding up the seven heavens.

 

[Galaxiom]

Really I don't understand why religionists bother to get into rational discussions about the tenets of their faith. Unsurprisingly they come out looking like fools every time.

 

[AnthonyGerrard]

Really I don't understand why religionists bother to get into rational discussions about the tenets of their faith. Unsurprisingly they come out looking like fools every time.

Yes bravado, arrogance and a desperation to prove oneself right seemingly.

Go through how only flat things stack again?

 

[John Big Booty]

 

[Galaxiom]

Yes bravado, arrogance and a desperation to prove oneself right seemingly.

Yes that would be it but in their enthusiasm they neglect to notice that nothing in their arguments stands up to the most basic scrutiny. Ever since Mohammed's initial "revelations" they have always bluffed their way along deceiving the ignorant into supporting their faith. This strategy simply does not work when confronted by intelligence and real knowledge.

One of the most popular myths promulgated by supporters of the Qur'an is that the book reveals scientific facts that could not have been known to Mohammed.

However on reading we can see that it describes a flat earth. (If I remember correctly the description is that it is shaped like a bird's nest.)

This is one among a plethora of errors that are not only revealed as mistakes by today's scientific knowledge but by the knowlege of scholars several centuries prior to Mohammed. So much for his divine insight.

Go through how only flat things stack again?

Mohammed describes seven earths in a series below and seven heavens in a series above. Implicit in this description is a single directional vector. We know that up and down are relative to the particualr location on the Earth where the observation is made. The description cannot accomodate a spherical Earth.

 

[aziz rasul]

Like life being made from water and bones from "chewed flesh"?

You clearly haven’t looked at the links I provided otherwise you wouldn’t keep repeating yourself and for me to keep giving the explanations you are asking for. You need keep pace with the discussion.

Or the Universe being unfurled like a curtain?

?

Give clear examples of these verses so we can judge the accuracy of your claims.

http://www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/quran/qms.pdf gives plenty of examples.

Also, do you regard the Book of Mormon as being written by God? If not explain the difference. If you do believe that then why aren't you a member of the Mormon Church

The Qur’an was and is the last revealed book by God. Hence any books claimed to come from God thereafter are not. Other books were revealed by God

Or do they envy mankind for what Allaah hath given them of his bounty? But We had already given the people of Abraham the Book and Wisdom, and conferred upon them a great kingdom.
Qur’an – Surah an-Nisaa’ (The Women) 4:54

We gave unto Moses the Scripture, and We appointed it a guidance for the Children of Israel, saying: Choose no guardian beside Me.
Qur’an - Surah al-Israa’ (The Night Journey) 17:2

Then, when the anger of Moses abated, he took up the tablets, and in their inscription there was guidance and mercy for all those who fear their Lord.
Qur’an - Surah al-A`raaf (The Heights) 7:154 See also 7:150.

Say (O Muhammad): “Come, I will recite what your Lord has prohibited you from: Join not anything in worship with Him; be good and dutiful to your parents; kill not your children because of poverty - We provide sustenance for you and for them; come not near to shameful deeds whether committed openly or secretly, and kill not anyone whom Allaah has forbidden, except for a just cause (according to Islamic law). This He has commanded you that you may understand.
Qur’an - Surah al-An`aam (The Cattle) 6:151

“And Allaah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Injil (Aramaic scripture given to Jesus),
Qur’an - Surah al-`Imraan (The Family of `Imraan) 3:45

84. Say (O Muhammad): We believe in Allaah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes, and that which was vouchsafed unto Moses and Jesus and the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered.
85. And whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender (to Allaah) it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter.
Qur’an - Surah al-`Imraan (The Family of `Imraan) 3:84-5