Orlando Shootings

[The_Doc_Man]

Regarding No-Go zones:

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/267295/acid-attacks-londons-muslim-no-go-zones-daniel-greenfield

The article also points out that gun control in London is working so well that gun crimes are up 42%, but since some people just can't get guns, they use knives or acid.

https://www.rt.com/news/399365-europe-no-go-zones-real/

Clarifies that it isn't that you CAN'T enter a No-Go zone, but the area is so volatile that you might not wish to do so.

Snopes suggests that FOX News has exaggerated the situation (which is not really a big surprise to anyone - or at least shouldn't be.) The zones exist in Europe AND in the USA, but are not as extreme as FOX News originally claimed.

https://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/nogozones.asp

I'm including one that shows off former Louisiana governor Bobby Jindal, who is a total jerk who, among other things, took only 8 years to turn a state with a small budget surplus into a state with a billion-dollar debt looming on the horizon, causing Draconian cuts in state services. But the article clearly states that the "no go" zones can be attributed to several specific news articles that were heavy on the hyperbole and not so heavy on facts.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/muslim-no-go-zone-myth-origin

Despite these zones being exaggerated, they STILL represent places where Muslims have attempted to maintain a status-quo of their parent culture to the exclusion of any idea of assimilation.

 

[Mark_]

@ The_Doc_Man,

I personally have little faith in most of these types of reports. The CLOSEST to truth I have even seen is reports regarding Cabrini-Green. That housing project was definitely NOT safe. Much of the hazards though where from how poorly maintained the buildings were, not just issues with the tenants.

When I worked for a couple years in Compton, CA, I never had the feeling it was a "No go" zone nor that hazardous to be in. Many areas get horrible reputations they have not earned. For some, this seems to be a "badge of honor" they work towards.

 

[ColinEssex]

Actually, I'm not "from" Essex, I just happen to live here.

Who is Roger Waters?

Feel free to ask any questions you like, I will do my best to answer them. (Unlike you)

Col

 

[Mark_]

Feel free to ask any questions you like, I will do my best to answer them. (Unlike you)

Col

All right, why didn't you answer my question?

Should be simple to answer...

 

[ColinEssex]

That question I'm guessing was "Does not understanding one is being offensive mean one is mentally challenged?"

I referred to Eskimoes and Red Indians.
I read your question as understanding one and not the other means that the non-understood one is mentally challenged.

Now, I am not qualified to comment as to whether Eskimoes or Red Indians are mentally challenged.
So I declined to answer on the basis of insufficient medical knowledge.

Col

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Ah, Colin, sometimes communicating with you is a mental challenge all of its own.

 

[ColinEssex]

Ah, Colin, sometimes communicating with you is a mental challenge all of its own.

Hmmm, I'm afraid there are several posters in these forums that fall into that category.

Col

 

[NauticalGent]

An interesting take on this issue:

https://youtu.be/STo3hwN--5E

 

[ColinEssex]

Does anyone here think that the massive protests currently happening in the USA against guns, are going to make any difference?

Is the brain-dead perma tan in the White House going to do anything, or is he a puppet of the NRA and has to do what they say?

Col

 

[Frothingslosh]

This one isn't actually about Der Orangenführer.

Conservatives will never, ever, under any circumstances go against the NRA no matter how many children die. Any Republican who actually does so will never get elected again.

So instead you have what we're seeing now, which includes things like Rubio telling those kids that instead of protesting, they should go learn CPR (presumably so that they'll be ready for the next massacre).

 

[AccessBlaster]

Feel free to chronicle the money Democrats received from Smith & Wesson and Ruger over the years. Most Democrats in New England States could not survive with out donations from arms companies. That was their bread and butter.

 

[Frothingslosh]

And yet, your response has literally ZERO bearing on my response to CE. Almost as if you know you cannot defend the GOP position and so have to attempt to divert the discussion instead.

Perhaps you should try responding to my position that nothing will change because the Republicans will invariably do what the NRA tells them to do. Making up baseless accusations (aka LIES) that the majority of Democrats in New England receive the majority of their campaign money from gun manufacturers does not address that point at all.

 

[AccessBlaster]

And yet, your response has literally ZERO bearing on my response to CE. Almost as if you know you cannot defend the GOP position and so have to attempt to divert the discussion instead.

I am not a apologist for the NRA or the Republican party. I find hypocrisy everywhere.

Do I think the comments by the NRA and Rick Santorum over the weekend were asinine, absolutely.

 

[constableparks]

I have changed my mind on gun control over the last 6 months. My previous mind was of the "guns don't kill...people do". But I can't ignore all of the innocent people being killed by semi-automatic guns. Nothing changes and more people die. I don't believe ALL guns should be illegal, but I don't see a need for civilians to have semi-automatic guns, hand grenades, surface-to-air missiles, armed fighter jets, fully armed apache helicopters, C4 explosives, land mines. Only one of these is still legal to own as a civilian and only one of these is being used in mass murder.

Every time I hear a pro-gun advocate slam someone who calls for common sense gun control without giving a thoughtful respectful response...I move a little coser to the "ban all guns" side. I know there are pro-gun advocates that are intelligent and respectful, but they are not being represented well with the memes and rhetoric that is being spread around. I listen to an articulate speech given by someone who wants gun control, and the response from pro-gun advocates is not a response to what they said, but rather a response to what the person looks like or their age or something else that has nothing to do with the content of the speech. The smart pro-gun advocates need to step up and take control of the message or they are going to lose even more supporters (like me).

 

[Mark_]

Banning all "Semi-automatic" firearms would affect hunters. When you shoot, the recoil of a bolt action weapon is less smooth than with a semi-automatic, thus making them less accurate in the hands of a non-professional. The design that has the least felt recoil is based off the AR-10 and uses a long buffer to spread recoil out, thus allowing a shooter to experience much less felt recoil and less jarring.

Of course the irony I see in most discussions on gun control is the emphasis on long arms. In the United States most deaths are due to hand guns, not long arms. Traditionally the pistol has been restricted much more than the rifle because it is far easier to conceal. The city of Chicago had 650 firearm related deaths in 2017 alone. With most of those being by handgun, you can understand why those who own long arms (rifles) may feel most proposals for gun control (anti - "Assault Rifle") are aimed at the wrong issue.

It is true that most of the shootings in the news are those committed by those using long arms, but this is because shooting two people a day in one city isn't a major new story, but shooting 17 once a month is. Media bias plays into the current narrative.

As to what you see on line, most of it is based on where you look. For every moron spewing pure stupidity there is an eloquent and reasoned response. This is true regardless of which side you look at as stupidity is equal opportunity. I do hope you do some research on what happens when a nation disarms itself and how that can affect those who have given up their weapons. In some areas it is very successful, in others not. Likewise look at societies that have a large percentage of shooters VS those that don’t. If you look to Mexico or Brazil for example of how poorly gun control can work you will see a vast difference from England or France. Likewise you will see Switzerland as an example of high gun ownership with very low rates of gun violence.

Truth be told government regulation has far less to do with gun violence than social drivers. Nicholas Cruz is a horribly disturbed individual whom local law enforcement was very familiar with. He should have been referred to mental health providers prior to his mother’s passing. He should have been dealt with during the dozens of complaints to law enforcement. He should never have passed a government background check to purchase weapons due to his issues. His horrible actions highlight a system that failed society as well as himself.

For myself, I believe all should look at this tragedy and ask “How did Nicolas fall through the cracks” rather than “How could anyone ever purchase a firearm”. I am just glad his inspiration was not Timothy McVey. I would hate to think what would happen if someone looked at the Bath massacre as a blue print for killing instead.

 

[ColinEssex]

We are told there are 300 million + guns active in the USA.

Even if all guns were banned, and say, 200 million are destroyed, there is still a massive number for cranks to own. The mass killings will continue.

Personally, I think the problem is now too big to stop, it's like trying to ban religion - ah yes, guns are a religion in the USA.

Col

 

[Mark_]

Mass killings will continue regardless of gun possession. China had a knife attack spree a few years ago. Nice saw the use of a Renault Midlum cargo truck to kill 87. Truth is people will do horrible, horrible things to one another and do not require the use of a firearm to do so. Often when something other than a gun is used, the body count is still staggering.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Nicholas Cruz is a horribly disturbed individual whom local law enforcement was very familiar with. He should have been referred to mental health providers prior to his mother’s passing. He should have been dealt with during the dozens of complaints to law enforcement. He should never have passed a government background check to purchase weapons due to his issues. His horrible actions highlight a system that failed society as well as himself.

To my way of thinking, this is not a gun control issue. It is a "following up on multiple negative reports" issue. The police investigative system FAILED MISERABLY on this one. This is not a case of "guns don't kill people, people kill people." This is a case of "lazy or negligent people allow other people to kill people."

I still believe that the right to keep and bear arms is crucial in a free society. But I also believe that if you get a bunch of calls about some whack-job who is clearly unstable, you take some kind of action besides shaking your finger at the person and saying, "Don't do anything rash." If we don't have laws on the books allowing for temporary confiscation of guns from disturbed individuals, we should.

The failure may be in a group of law enforcement officers who are afraid to act against someone for fear of being sued. Has our society reached the point that the police can't act on legit tips? Given that they had several tips on Cruz and that those tips appear to have been well-founded, what more does it take?

 

[AccessBlaster]

The failure may be in a group of law enforcement officers who are afraid to act against someone for fear of being sued.

In Berkeley California the police were told to stand down, because mask wearing anarchist apparently out numbered the police. The real reason is, California and many other cities are being run by anarchists. They would rather see Berkeley burn then listen to a opposing view point. Berkeley the bastion of free speech.

 

[ColinEssex]

Mass killings will continue regardless of gun possession. China had a knife attack spree a few years ago. Nice saw the use of a Renault Midlum cargo truck to kill 87. Truth is people will do horrible, horrible things to one another and do not require the use of a firearm to do so. Often when something other than a gun is used, the body count is still staggering.

I think religious brainwashing is a totally different ball game.

We are talking about the US insanity brigade that decide on mass killings. Yes it happens elsewhere, but not with such frequency. So what are the reasons that make people do it? It's not religion. Is it the 15 minutes of fame?

Col