Gun violence

[KitaYama]

This chart shows a vast majority of handgun owners report carrying a handgun for protection against another person.Rowhani-Rahbar, et al./American Journal of Public Health

from:

More US adults carrying loaded handguns daily, study finds

New research led by the University of Washington finds that the number of U.S. adult handgun owners carrying a loaded handgun on their person doubled from 2015 to 2019, and that a larger proportion of...

www.washington.edu

 

[AccessBlaster]

A tiny fraction of the public does most of the crime, mainly folks who are repeat offenders in big city hubs. These places often have a "catch and release" approach to law enforcement.

The news tends to exaggerate, making it seem like everyone's either a crook or a victim. But let's face it, fear sells.

Certain politicians and news outlets are all about going easy on criminals, blaming society for their actions. They let these folks back on the streets, and surprise, they keep on committing crimes.

Mix in the whole "defund the police" mess, and you've got yourself a liberal-fueled crime explosion. Simple as that.

 

[Pat Hartman]

So the weapons basically stay at home and are only carried and used there?

Most "liberal" states have severely restrictive carry laws. The "free" states are less restrictive and therefore, there is a bigger chance a random stranger will be armed and therefore street muggings are less common. There is also a perverse effect on mass shootings. Somehow, mass shootings mostly happen in "gun free zones" like schools and churches. They don't happen in honky tonks in south Texas where everyone is armed.

 

[Pat Hartman]

This chart shows a vast majority of handgun owners report carrying a handgun for protection against another person.Rowhani-Rahbar, et al./American Journal of Public Health

Why do you persist in equating honest, law-abiding citizens with criminals? Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Just because you own a gun and carry it, doesn't mean you're going to go out and shoot some stranger. Just the opposite in fact.

The chart is deliberately intended to deceive. The poll wasn't "do you carry your gun outside of the home", which is what you seem to think it asks. The question was "for what reason do you carry your gun outside of the home".

 

[KitaYama]

Just because you own a gun and carry it, doesn't mean you're going to go out and shoot some stranger.

You even didn’t bother to watch the clip. Did you?
Controlling your anger Is hard. In the video both sides were armed. They went into a fight, the fight escalated and then the gun came out. They didn’t kill each other, but nobody knows if the next time they get angry, they come out alive again. So it exactly means that because you carry a gun, there’s a good chance of killing a stranger over a simple problem as that.

When you don’t even believe your eyes and see what happened in the clip, how anybody can prove anything to you?

The poll wasn't "do you carry your gun outside of the home", which is what you seem to think it asks. The question was "for what reason do you carry your gun outside of the home"

ebs17 asked if the guns stay at home or not and I replied.
Did you see the first link? It doesn’t talk about any question. It says 6 million people carry gun outside their home.
the poll was the percentage of those 6 million.
And it is in 2019. Now google statics of 2023.

 

[Isaac]

Are you prepared for shots that seriously injure and kill others?

Which ones are you referring to, the person who breaks into my home shooting me or me shooting them?
It would be great to avoid both, but if I had to choose, I'd choose them rather than me.
Being a martyr is no credit to you, just stupidity

 

[ebs17]

The ability to defend myself also increases the possibilities for me to attack and assert my interests offensively.
Firearms that virtually anyone can use (even children can pull a trigger) have a significant impact on this.

Gun violence - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Although citizens in the USA are better protected by freely available weapons than, for example, German citizens, they have significantly more deaths from weapons. What's going on there?

 

[Pat Hartman]

You even didn’t bother to watch the clip. Did you?

I thought it was a link to the chart. I can't open the clip.

Did you see the first link? It doesn’t talk about any question. It says 6 million people carry gun outside their home.

No. They don't want you to know what question they asked or they would tell you but clearly the chart represents answers. If you think that the 6 million number makes you unsafe, you are not understanding who these people are.

So it exactly means that because you carry a gun, there’s a good chance of killing a stranger over a simple problem as that.

Only if you are an idiot. I can't see the clip so I don't know what happened. Whoever drew first should lose his gun permit permanently as well as do jail time. You do not ever point a gun at another person unless you intend to shoot to kill to protect yourself. Better enforcement of existing gun laws would go a long way toward removing guns from the hands of bad guys and hot heads. There is no need to remove guns from the hands of sane, non-criminals.

 

[Isaac]

And we haven't even gotten into , yet, the fact that simply showing a gun in many burglaries will deter the crime.
Never mind having to hurt the person. Just having the gun and/or firing a round into the sofa couch will send most home invaders running.

There is no way to capture all of these events, but anecdotally, they are many, a non trivial amount.

 

[ebs17]

Just having the gun and/or firing a round into the sofa couch will send most home invaders running.

Or that evil person who only wanted to use his weapon as a threat will now actively defend himself.

 

[AccessBlaster]

Liberals need for you to be a victim, that's how they manifest power.

 

[Pat Hartman]

Liberals need for you to be a victim, that's how they manifest power.

Look how well it worked for COVID

 

[Isaac]

Or that evil person who only wanted to use his weapon as a threat will now actively defend himself.

Either way, the suggestion that you'd rather not have a chance at defending yourself/family is a complete non-starter, as I'm sure you're aware

 

[Isaac]

Liberals need for you to be a victim, that's how they manifest power.

Yeah, sheesh AB - it's really stunning watching these peoples' thought process. So indoctrinated that 'guns are bad', they can't even admit they'd like to defend their own family! They literally cannot even voice the words to admit it - that's how irrational the whole thing has become.

With Col defending home invaders as being "teen girls" (now exactly how often is a home invasion a teen girl???) and ebs suggesting the person isn't really evil and only wants to take care of themselves, I start to wonder on people's basic sanity.

But, in the interest of "believing the best of people", I choose to believe that it's mostly people outside the US from places where maybe violent burglaries don't happen (or something like that), and literally don't know what they are talking about. That's a best case scenario for me to assume.

Those anti-handgun types inside the USA, who know full well how often violent burglaries take place, I have no explanation for their POV other than the typical liberal viewpoints, trying for anarchy to gain power, etc.

Another possibility is that they are from a country that doesn't allow much guns (so only the bad guys have them, like Mexico), and are resentful. Because but of course, anyone would love the chance to defend themselves and maybe they are just resentful to talk to people who are allowed to? I dunno.

 

[ColinEssex]

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

That's probably the weakest excuse for gun ownership.
So what you're saying is that if a loaded gun is accidentally dropped and it somehow discharges and shoots someone in the heart, that person won't die because 'guns don't kill people' - what absolute rubbish.
Col

 

[AccessBlaster]

That's probably the weakest excuse for gun ownership.
So what you're saying is that if a loaded gun is accidentally dropped and it somehow discharges and shoots someone in the heart, that person won't die because 'guns don't kill people' - what absolute rubbish.
Col

Speaking of weak, you pick the least likely scenario. But okay, it could happen in some universe between now and never.

 

[Isaac]

Speaking of weak, you pick the least likely scenario. But okay, it could happen in some universe between now and never.

That's how all his arguments are.

With me he claimed "what if it's a confused, teenage girl?"

Oh my gosh, yes, because most home invasions are just nice people who wander into the wrong house. I mean, ridiculous. That's why I say indoctrinated - they're not even reacting how normal people would react to one's own safety, they've been programmed to think they cannot ask for such a thing.

It's like going to north korea and trying to patiently explain to the people there why it's great to have freedoms and not be tortured so much.
They just won't get it. NO. Freedom is bad and torture is nice.

 

[AccessBlaster]

More US adults carrying loaded handguns daily, study finds​

Yes because carrying unloaded handguns wouldn't make sense

 

[The_Doc_Man]

That's probably the weakest excuse for gun ownership.
So what you're saying is that if a loaded gun is accidentally dropped and it somehow discharges and shoots someone in the heart, that person won't die because 'guns don't kill people' - what absolute rubbish.
Col

Rubbish? No, Col, "rubbish" is actually the "drop a loaded gun, it will go off and kill someone" argument. THAT is rubbish. If you have modified your weapon to have a "hair trigger" (easy to discharge) AND load it AND pre-**** it AND then drop it, it MIGHT go off. Then it has to bounce in such a way as it is pointed at someone's vital organs. Sorry, but no. It is such a low probability event that nobody here believes it without proof.

If you saw the headlines recently, Alec Baldwin got re-arrested for the incident while filming the movie Rust, a "USA western" set in a small cowboy town in late 1800s or very early 1900s USA. He claimed his loaded gun accidentally went off and killed one of the movie's staff members. Part of the controversy was how a loaded weapon came onto a movie set with live ammunition rather than blanks. Part of it was the claim that he never touched the trigger and didn't know how or why it discharged.

The charges were initially dropped "without prejudice" (meaning the charges could later be reinstated) based on technicalities. Well, after the FBI tested the gun extensively, they said it was in proper working order and would ONLY have gone off if the trigger were pulled. In other words, "it just fired for no reason" doesn't work as an excuse. Alec Baldwin has been arrested again and will face charges of manslaughter.

Don't blame the gun. It is always a person who fired it.

It says 6 million people carry gun outside their home.

In a country with a population of 332 million, that is about 1.8% of the people. Yep, we all carry guns everywhere we go... NOT. That is less than 1 in 50 people. I would say offhand that in proportion, that is NOT a lot of people.

 

[Isaac]

#1 most obvious need, have one in your (my) home - Check. If danger threatens my family in the middle of the night, I'll be capable of doing something about it.
#2 unfortunately, in larger cities, road rage is a big deal. People get stabbed, shot, and killed all the time from upset drivers. Carry a small pistol in the glove box, it may give you at least a chance at Life.
#3 is the question of carrying on your person. I have never done that, mostly because of the clothing/how-would-it-work type of question. I'd only want to carry concealed, because I feel that open carrying invites a bit too much mischief - at least too much for me to handle. So it's have to be concealed, and 99% of the examples you will find of people suggesting how to do that are assuming cold weather. Where I live, I wear shorts and a tshirt 365 days a year unless there's a wedding. Frankly there is no simple way for me to conceal a gun, so the house and car will have to be enough for me.