Gun violence

[Isaac]

You are extremely trained for an event that is unlikely to occur.

Really? Statistics show that 1 in 5 homes will experience a home invasion. 46% of all home invasions included injury to the occupants.

Unlikely? Subjective, I suppose, but I'm pretty happy to get a gun for a 1 in 5 chance.

 

[ebs17]

@Isaac
I spoke of @moke123's environment and my environment with extremely low probabilities. Of course, for others it is completely different.

Are you prepared for shots that seriously injure and kill others?

 

[moke123]

@ebs17 , Just a good habit. My locker is about 3-4 feet from my bed with a 4 digit code.

If someone wants to have an accident with a gun, that's kind of their business isn't it?

Why don't you ask the 4 year old with half a face.

Really? Statistics show that 1 in 5 homes will experience a home invasion. 46% of all home invasions included injury to the occupants.

How is Home invasion defined in that statistic? Often the term Home invasion is applied incorrectly. Legally, at least in Ma., a home invasion charge requires you to enter the home while armed and is a 20 year mando. If for instance you enter a home and then pick up a knife or other weapon it is not a Home Invasion. Every home invasion I've ever investigated has been drug or gang related, meaning they were ripping off a dealer or retaliating against a rival gang.

Must suck to go to bed each night thinking your going to be the 1 in 5.

 

[Pat Hartman]

How are you keeping the family safe if there's an unsecured loaded weapon available to a toddler.

Don't get the impression that I think guns and children are a good mix.

You're getting like Colin. You read part of what I say and jump on something I didn't say. Sounds like you practice your quick draw because you're a professional. Wonder how many other gun owners do that.

In any event, the best solution is the personalized locks. I'm not sure how they work but my understanding is that they are somehow keyed to the owner's fingerprint or something so that only the owner can fire it. You could probably educate us on that technology.

So given that you now have a loaded gun. What next? Shoot to kill? Shoot to wound or incapacitate? Or not Shoot at all. Let's say the intruder is an unarmed teenage opportunistic girl.

Shoot to kill. Aim for center mass. Unless you are a trained assassin, you are probably not good enough to incapacitate an intruder.

Let's say the intruder is an unarmed teenage opportunistic girl.

Then she made a serious error in judgement.

 

[ColinEssex]

So it's OK (in the USA) to kill an unarmed intruder. In the UK, that would be manslaughter and get you about 10 years in the slammer.
Col

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Must suck to go to bed each night thinking your going to be the 1 in 5.

Sucks even more when you are in a hospital bed with an IV drip and stitches because you WERE the one out of five.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

So it's OK (in the USA) to kill an unarmed intruder. In the UK, that would be manslaughter and get you about 10 years in the slammer.
Col

Col, I have mentioned this before. In the USA, each state has its own laws and the definition of self-defense varies from state to state.

In Louisiana, it is not required for you to take the time to verify that your home intruder was, in fact, unarmed. Nor are you required to determine that status before using the gun, particularly if the home is dark. We have a name for this - the "castle doctrine" - which says a person's home is his/her castle and that castle can be defended with lethal force.

Most states require that if the intruder turns and runs before you shoot, that you must allow him/her to retreat because, when retreating, they are no longer a threat. Then your comment about manslaughter would be a valid issue.

 

[ColinEssex]

So wherever Pat lives, it's OK to 'shoot to kill'. Nice.
Col

 

[The_Doc_Man]

So wherever Pat lives, it's OK to 'shoot to kill'. Nice.
Col

Col, one of things you are taught is that if you draw the gun, the expectation is that either the other person surrenders VERY FAST... OR you shoot to kill with minimal hesitation. There is no "shoot to wound" unless you are a trained Olympics-class shooter. If you aren't prepared to use the gun and accept that someone's death is a likely outcome, you should never have HAD the gun around in the first place.

And it is OK to shoot to kill only in specifically limited circumstances that include fearing for your life or the life of a loved one. Police officers can even be charged in the USA for discharge of a weapon if they are careless or non-attentive to the circumstances. When a cop kills a perpetrator, it is almost always because the perp was about to use a weapon. Contrary to your apparent beliefs, most of us in the USA do not kill just because we can. We kill when we think it is "them or us" and we don't want it to be us.

 

[moke123]

When a cop kills a perpetrator, it is almost always because the perp was about to use a weapon.

Or he believes the perp was about to use a weapon.

 

[Pat Hartman]

So wherever Pat lives, it's OK to 'shoot to kill'. Nice.

No, but it should be. You are looking at this at an intellectual level and you think that the person who breaks into your home has "good" intentions and would never harm you or anyone else and you are perfectly willing to had over whatever you have that the perp wants. I say, look at it personally. If someone breaks into my home, I assume they have "bad" intentions. Good people don't break into the homes of others. Only bad people do that and the bad people should be dealt with permanently if at all possible. Now, if your door is unlocked as Moke's is, and someone walks in off the street, then you'd be hard pressed to justify shooting him.

This is extreme but put yourself in the shoes of one of the Israeli's whose home was invaded by men with guns. Do you think any of those people had been thinking about having a gun the day before? In this case, it wouldn't have mattered anyway since one person with a handgun is no match for 4 soldiers with modern weapons. But, one homeowner with a handgun is a match for a single intruder.

 

[moke123]

If someone breaks into my home, I assume they have "bad" intentions. Good people don't break into the homes of others. Only bad people do that and the bad people should be dealt with permanently if at all possible.

What if it's your neighbor who's a little tipsy and he goes to the wrong house? Is that a death sentence? My friend from NYC was just telling me about his elevator stopping on the wrong floor and he went to what he thought was his door but wasn't. He was trying to get his key to work and turning the knob. Would you shoot him?

TikTok - Make Your Day

Now, if your door is unlocked as Moke's is, and someone walks in off the street, then you'd be hard pressed to justify shooting him.

Not how it works Pat.

Curious, Do you have a gun?

 

[Pat Hartman]

What if it's your neighbor who's a little tipsy and he goes to the wrong house?

How would he be getting in if the door was locked? Just being at the door and trying to open it is not the same thing as being in the house. The people who actually have keys know enough to be noisy if they are surprising me.

Curious, Do you have a gun?

No. I am not convinced that I could point the gun at another person and pull the trigger under pressure. Therefore, the gun would be a danger to me rather than the criminal.

 

[The_Doc_Man]

Or he believes the perp was about to use a weapon.

Correction accepted, though with body cams these days, the belief has to be at least reasonable.

 

[moke123]

Correction accepted, though with body cams these days, the belief has to be at least reasonable.

I'm sure you wouldn't be surprised by how often they malfunction, or something blocks the camera lens.

Our county was pretty slow to adopt them, it's only been about the last year. Real pain in the ass though because they're long and on large capacity dvd's which are expensive. They do a pretty good job of documenting the interactions and I'm sure you also wouldn't be surprised that the police report narrative doesn't always comport with what was recorded.

 

[Galaxiom]

Takes me 2 seconds to open my gun locker and another 2 to chamber a round. How are you keeping the family safe if there's an unsecured loaded weapon available to a toddler.

And it takes the intruder a tenth of a second to fire.

 

[ebs17]

Above, we talked almost exclusively about defending one's own home.

So the weapons basically stay at home and are only carried and used there?

 

[KitaYama]

So the weapons basically stay at home and are only carried and used there?

Don't you read news?
It was a while back just because of cutting line
Side arm vs side arm..... Somebody here told me "We don't carry guns like cowboy movies" and I believed him

 

[NauticalGent]

Somebody here told me "We don't carry guns like cowboy movies" and I believed him

That was me, and we don't. What you see is a fringe occurrence and is not even close to what it is like over here.

 

[KitaYama]

That was me

I'm not sure why, but I had a feeling it was Doc.

and we don't.

Maybe you live in a safe state...

Six million Americans carried guns daily in 2019, twice as many as in 2015

The trend is expected to continue, after the supreme court ruling earlier this year overturning strict limits on public gun-carrying

www.theguardian.com